Houston Chron - BATFE door to door search

[deadday]

Originally Posted by DirtyD

We had A BATFE guy int he shop doing our audit last week. I took the opportunity to ask him about these recent events and got what I feel was a reasnable explaination. FFL holders are supposed to get audited at least once a year, and currently they are two years behind schedule. What we are seeing is something very similar to the troop surge in Iraq, they are simply trying to catch up. The visits to people are largely a result of the "transplant" agents who are very rapidly pissing the local guys off. They (the foreigners) to not understand Texas Gun Owners, and are regularlygetting slapped down by the localsupervisory agents and told, and I quote, "You are not in New York/Conneticut?/New Jersey etc., This is not how we conduct business here, audit the frms and go home..." Most of these door knockers are overzealous yankees. This being said does not diminish the the fact that it is happening, however it does put, for me at least, things in perspective. Nothing is happening that is new, it is just happening more frequently for a temporary period thanks to the publicity generated by the left wing media. Our local offices and agents pose no threat to us, and actually are more on our side than you think. We also spoke at length about the existence and future of the BATFE, and I have come to believe they are a necessary organization, if they did not exist then regulation of firearms laws would fall under the Federal Bumbling Idiots. Talk about a nightmare scenario...Feel free to flame away and tell me how I have drank the kool-aid and am no longer a RTKBA supporter, but I think we all need to step back and examine the panic that we are causing a little more closely. I am not saying that I agree, just that things are being blown out of reasonable proportion.

That is NOT a reasonable explanation at all. What they are doing is illegal.

[DirtyD]

How is it illegal? Are they confiscaing your guns? Did they pull your name from a database? Did they come into your house uninvitated? What exactley is illegal about this?

[Big country]

Originally Posted by DirtyD

How is it illegal? Are they confiscaing your guns? Did they pull your name from a database? Did they come into your house uninvitated? What exactley is illegal about this?

I'm just trying to understand, so don't get mad and call me politically correct or any other bad name. But if they showed up at his house they had to get a name and address from somewhere.

[deadday]

Originally Posted by DirtyD

How is it illegal? Are they confiscaing your guns? Did they pull your name from a database? Did they come into your house uninvitated? What exactley is illegal about this?

Familiarize yourself with the FOPA and the Tiarht Amendment and you will know..

[M. Sage]

Originally Posted by DirtyD

Most of these door knockers are overzealous yankees.

In other words, if they knock on your door just tell 'em "Yankees go home!"

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by deadday

Familiarize yourself with the FOPA and the Tiarht Amendment and you will know..

Or you could just answer the question, normaly in this situation you will provide sources for your claims....

[deadday]

Originally Posted by DirtyD

Or you could just answer the question, normaly in this situation you will provide sources for your claims....

I didn't make any claims, just stated a fact, and I did provide sources, the FOPA and the Tiahrt Amendment, you chose not to research those sources....

The FOPA states that the ATF cannot record any information from your Form 4473...They obviously did this as they showed up on my door step asking about the weapons I purchased...This information could be found nowhere but the 4473....The Tiarht Amendment deals with the ATFs trace program...States that the ATF cannot initiate a firearm trace unless 1) they have the firearm in hand, recovered from crime scene or criminal at time of arrest, 2) the trace information must be needed in a criminal investigation or prosecution. The ATF did not have the firearms, I did, and I am not the subject of any pending investigation or prosecution....there are further sections of both laws that were violated by the ATF in this instance, but that is the meat of it...

As a firearm owner, you should know as much as you can about all the applicable laws..I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with both the FOPA and the Tiarht Amendment for when the ATF decides that you are doing something they don't like and want to violate the law and treat you as a criminal...

[DirtyD]

I assume you are reffering to this portion of the FOPA? You may want to re-read the bolded section....
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

As stated above, your information was not recorded in or retreived from a government database, recording information from the form in the store? Legal.
And the Tiahrt Ammendment allows the BATFE to utilize information in performance of administrative duties. I suggest you should, how did you put it? Familiarize yourself with both the FOPA and Tiahrt... I am not trying to start trouble, but make sure you are posting the information and not your interpratation as fact....

[deadday]

When I spoke with the dealer I asked him if the ATF had been by, the answer was no. So how was my information come by?

As to the Tiarht and admin duties, where does contacting me in regards to firearms purchase, and requesting an inspection of the firearms fit in? Remember Operation Forward Trace under Clinton? Seems to me they are doing the same thing here.

Some how, the ATF got my information and information on the firearms I purchased. An ATF agent did not go to the dealer and read my 4473, which leads me to believe that my information and purchase information was recorded and stored somewhere, most likely at a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof...

[DirtyD]

Ease your mind or have words with your dealer. The 4473's at my shop and every other shop I know stay IN THE SHOP.... Either your dealer forwarded your information to the ATF or was unaware that they were in the shop. when a firearm is purchased it is recorded in the FFL logbook, which is an old fashioned hard bound pen and paper book, not a computer, when they run your NCIS check no information other than hand gun or long gun is entered. Your dealer HAD to give the info to the ATF, my opinion, find a new guy....