State Fair 2009 Disappointment

[gemini]

I am new to this site. Sorry to post something this long, but I thought some of you may be interested. This occurred Thursday Oct 1, 2009.
I have already contacted 2 local radio talk show hosts, pro 2nd ammendment. State Representatives. And my attorney.

STATE FAIR DISAPPOINTMENT
Warning: This is a very long post. Sorry.
I arranged to cut my work day short, my wife left her job early, a good friend
and his wife also cut their work day short, in order to attend this years Fair together.
We arrived at the Fair grounds today, about 4:45pm. We parked in a on premise
Fair parking lot and proceeded to the entry gate from the parking lot.
At the entry gate I was wanded by the attendant. I had my CHL out and was displaying
it to her. She was oblivious until she heard the beep, saw the CHL and exclaimed (rather
loudly) “do you have a concealed weapon on you”? The next words out of her mouth were
“I have to write down your information”. I stated “all I needed to do was speak with the officer”
(seated in an elevated chair / umbrella) and pointed in his direction. She hastily went to his
stand and stated “he has a CHL” and “I am supposed to write down his ID and information”.
The officer asked for my CHL, I showed it to him and he stated “that wasn’t (writing down the info)
necessary”, and handed it back to me. NOW THE PROBLEM BEGINS!:
The gate attendant stated (to the officer) that she “had been told by the gate supervisor to write down
everyones ID and information if they enter with a CHL or they are NOT allowed entry into the
Fair grounds”. I told the officer that “I would not give her any of my personal information. It’s not
required by law, and I don’t think it’s legal for them to be collecting the type of information they are
requiring for entry”. He actually nodded in agreement, but decided to contact a gate supervisor. I waited
about 7 minutes for a “supervisor” (named Don) to arrive.
Don was adament. “No ID and information, no entry into the Fair”. Don stated “the Fair was private
property and collecting the information was their policy”. I stated it was “government property”.He
then walked away. I continued speaking with the officer (in the elevated seat) about information
privacy, CHL, ID theft etc etc. We actually had very similar views. However, he said he had to go by
the “policy”. The gate attendant and gate supervisor (Don) had rather abrasive attitudes.
*I want to stress that at no time was the uniformed Dallas Police Officer Burke rude, or offensive in any way. He seemed like a nice guy that was just “following company policy” so to speak.
Next thing I know a man described as Head of Security pulls up on a little scooter. His name was
Steve Ledbetter. Dismounts his mighty mini-steed and walks over to me. (I guess Don didn’t like my
refusal to illegally take my personal info and had called for backup). Head of Security says “it’s their
policy. Either allow them to record my information or leave. Or go put it back in your car”. I replied “I
will not allow my personal information, my CHL number, my SSN, my guns serial number or anything
else to be recorded”. He then proceeded to tell me that they (the Fair) had numerous “incidents” with
CHL holders that caused a lot of problems at the Fair. That CHL holders had lost guns on rides and that
Fair officials had found them the following day. They needed the information in case you “lost” your gun
…so they’d know who to return it too. Then he tried to relate how a guns/CHL registration (logged info
with Fair gate keeper) and an automobile registration were similar because you could just sell a gun but
would have to register a car to sell it. I finally responded “I don’t see any connection there, and I’m not
sure where this is going or how it relates”. He stated “this is their policy (I’d heard that line before), they
rent the Fair for 24 days each year , they’re a private company and that’s it”.
The rest of the story: The 3 others in my party had already paid admission and were waiting for my
ordeal to end. When I told them what had transpired, they were not willing to attend the Fair without
me. I had already called one of my sons to be ready to come pick me up so the others could still attend.
Nothing doing, they understood my position and fully supported my decision to not attend the Fair
under these circumstances.
BeforeHead of Security could exit the immediate area, I asked that the monies paid by my friends be
refunded. He had to call another man to the gate to issue the refund. The ticket booth operator was not
authorized to make refunds. So, we wait about 15 minutes. A very nice older gentleman arrived, and we
got our refund. *this gentleman was very nice and apologetic
Time was now 6:05pm.
**One note I need to make clear: At NO time did I raise my voice, cuss, disrespect or threaten
anyone during this entire fiasco. However, by the time the gate supervisor, gate attendant and
head of security were through calling each other on 2 way radio’s etc…..pretty much everyone in the
gate area knew I had a CHL and was carrying a weapon and what the commotion was about. This did
not make me happy. They handled nothing discretely.

We left the Fair, I took everyone to eat at an upscale Mexican restaurant.
I have a call in to my attorney re: a possible civil rights violation.
I will be calling Joe Driver, Allan Vought, Mark Davis and a few others in the morning.
To some it may be a wasted trip, time and money. I know my wife and I were disappointed, as were
the couple we were with. Lost wages from work etc. Some may not make the effort to refuse their
personal info be recorded by Fair personnel. I am going to stay with this until it is resolved. I attended
the last Fair with no problems. No, I am not a happy camper. No one with a valid CHL should have to
go through this type of abuse. Post the required legal signage banning carry if allowed to by law,
but don’t make policy or company law or regulations that supercede state law and violate my
individual rights.
If you’ve made it this far reading…….I thank you for your time and for lending me an ear to vent.
I welcomeconstructive suggestions and/or constructive criticism.

I have since contacted Earl McCoy’s (General Manager State Fair) office at 214-421-8730 and
was informed that it IS their policy to enter CHL personal information into a log by the gate supervisor.

[High-Cap 1911]

i have lived here all my life and NEVER been to the state fair.... never found a good reason to go to dallas, now i have 2...

[DCortez]

Originally Posted by gemini

We left the Fair, I took everyone to eat at an upscale Mexican restaurant.

I was with you til that It's rice and beans, people. Nothing upscale about Mexican food, however, Mexican style food can be. Pappasitos has to be the worst.


Seriously though, those guy suck.

[TxEMTP69]

I hate reading stuff like this, +1 on another eason not to go to Dallas, +2 on standing up for your rights, +3 on the upscale mexican restaurants

[Starker]

+4 everything TxEMTP69 said

[MadMo44Mag]

I had a problem a few years back at the fair. I won't go into details here but never been back.
Same type of issue, they wanted info they were not entitled too.

[kingofwylietx]

Good luck w/the lawyer. I have to go against the general consensus here. First, I don't really want them writing down my info.....but, all in all, who cares? Well, you do. And that is fine, I understand that. However, they are writing down info that is already public record. Your CHL & DL are public information. Heck, rent a car, open a bank account, or clear security at the airport and you have to produce a DL. Also, if you go to their website, it is a private corporation that runs the event.

They can kiss my butt before I give them my social, because that is something you really can use for ID theft.

Also, if you decide to vote with your wallet.....then you should call them to let them know that you didn't go because you don't feel it is right for them to write down your info. Otherwise, they have no idea that they have lost any revenue. If they get enough complaints, they may change the policy next year. Policies change much faster when they are making a revenue loss.

[gemini]

Originally Posted by kingofwylietx

Good luck w/the lawyer. I have to go against the general consensus here. First, I don't really want them writing down my info.....but, all in all, who cares? Well, you do. And that is fine, I understand that. However, they are writing down info that is already public record. Your CHL & DL are public information. Heck, rent a car, open a bank account, or clear security at the airport and you have to produce a DL. Also, if you go to their website, it is a private corporation that runs the event.

in 2007 the TX legislature banned "open records request" for CHL information. Produce your DL for ID? OK. But SSN, serial number from your gun etc. and entering it in a log? Not going to happen.

They can kiss my butt before I give them my social, because that is something you really can use for ID theft.

Also, if you decide to vote with your wallet.....then you should call them to let them know that you didn't go because you don't feel it is right for them to write down your info. Otherwise, they have no idea that they have lost any revenue. If they get enough complaints, they may change the policy next year. Policies change much faster when they are making a revenue loss.

I have contacted 2 state representatives, 2 radio (pro 2nd ammendment) jocks, the General Managers office of the Fair (Earl McCoy @ 214-421-8730). Besides a trial lawyer. And I'm not finished.

[Renegade]

Call TSRA.

They have been doing this for years, you are the first I know of to stand up to them. Good job.

They cannot deny you entry to the fair on the basis of you being a CHL. Putting ridiculous requirements (recording ID), is circumventing the intent of the law.

[Renegade]

Originally Posted by kingofwylietx

However, they are writing down info that is already public record. Your CHL & DL are public information.

No a CHL is not public record. If you think so, tell me what my CHL number is?

But that is not the point. The law was put in place to allow CHLs easy access to govt property. This circumvents that. What if next year then demand fingerprints, a bio scan, or an ankle brace? When does it end. They are not authorized to do this.