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  1. #1
    Senior Member claymore504's Avatar
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    Carrying in parks

    Ok, I am pretty much confused on this. Seems you can carry (open or concealed) in city parks and state parks, but there is an issue if the park land is leased from the Army Core of Engineers, making it federal land I guess. Thus came up since my family and I use Cullen park (west Houston/Katy) a lot and I have been carrying without thinking about it. I see no signs at the entrance we use, but I just started wondering what the law is and upon some random internet searching it seems you can't carry in some parks due to the lease deal I state above.

    I have looked on the site for the park and there is a very general rule stating no hunting or use of firearms allowed. I guess I can call the city, but will they give me a true answer or just say no.
    Clay

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  2. #2
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    All of the federal parks and land in this area (DFW) is clearly marked at the entrances and at the office.

  3. #3
    Member Coiled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claymore504 View Post
    I guess I can call the city, but will they give me a true answer or just say no.
    Undoubtedly that will depend on who takes the call. My suggestion is to email the city/county attorney, that way it's in writing too.

  4. #4
    Senior Member majormadmax's Avatar
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    Well, if you're calling the Army Core of Engineers, you won't get an answer. Try the Army Corps of Engineers!

    Bu the bad news is carry on Army Corps of Engineers land is still illegal. See Title 36 Section 327.13 here

    Back in October of 2014 there was an injunction against their enforcement of that rule, Nesbitt v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers; but the ruling has been appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals of the Ninth Circuit.

    More on that case here: https://www.mountainstateslegal.org/...s#.WHT0en2gua7

    Cheers! M2
    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier!


  5. #5
    Senior Member claymore504's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. They should have signs posted, though correct?
    Clay

    Please help this fellow Texas / Veteran family in a time of need while their baby girl battles leukemia.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member majormadmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claymore504 View Post
    Thanks for the info. They should have signs posted, though correct?
    Some locations have signs, but I don't believe it's a Federal requirement like it would be at the state level (e.g. 30.06/30.07)...

    I have read where at least in one instance at Lake Georgetown there are/were no signs.
    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier!


  7. #7
    Senior Member majormadmax's Avatar
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    And here are the consequences for violating 327.13...

    327.25 Violations of rules and regulations.

    (a) Any person who violates the provisions of the regulations in this part, other than for a failure to pay authorized recreation use fees as separately provided for in 327.23, may be punished by a fine of not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than six months or both and may be tried and sentenced in accordance with the provisions of section 3401 of Title 18, United States Code. Persons designated by the District Commander shall have the authority to issue a citation for violation of the regulations in this part, requiring any person charged with the violation to appear before the United States Magistrate within whose jurisdiction the affected water resources development project is located (16 U.S.C. 460d).

    (b) Any person who commits an act against any official or employee of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that is a crime under the provisions of section 111 or section 1114 of Title 18, United States Code or under provisions of pertinent state law may be tried and sentenced as further provided under Federal or state law, as the case may be.
    [65 FR 6903, Feb. 11, 2000]

    Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/327.25
    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier!


  8. #8
    Senior Member majormadmax's Avatar
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    Now, I am not a lawyer; but I did see a distinction in 327.13 that appears to be a loophole if you want to risk in. Namely...

    327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

    (a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:

    (1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
    (2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
    (3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
    (4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

    (b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.
    To me this would allow for the possession of unloaded firearms, but since ammo is still prohibited it's pretty much useless from a self-defense perspective...
    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier!


  9. #9
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    There are state and federal laws a LTC (CHL) holder has to be concerned with. Under Texas law state parks are not off limits. Texas law does not address COE lands. Federal law does. Under federal law it is unlawful, as you have read above, to have a firearm on COE lands. Texas law enforcement officers won't care, as it is not a violation of Texas law. Federal LEOs will enforce that federal law.

    Calling the city or county attorney will do no good, as they have nothing to do with Federal law. 30.06/07 do not apply to federal locations.
    "Remember those who died, remember those who killed them."- Max Joseph

    "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final"-Bill Jordan

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by txinvestigator View Post
    There are state and federal laws a LTC (CHL) holder has to be concerned with. Under Texas law state parks are not off limits. Texas law does not address COE lands. Federal law does. Under federal law it is unlawful, as you have read above, to have a firearm on COE lands. Texas law enforcement officers won't care, as it is not a violation of Texas law. Federal LEOs will enforce that federal law.

    Calling the city or county attorney will do no good, as they have nothing to do with Federal law. 30.06/07 do not apply to federal locations.

    Does this apply to National Parks? Like Fish and Wildlife properties? Sam Houston National Forest? I've often wondered but the Corps of Engineers talk makes me not sure if those are the same category. I'm not well informed enough to know this.

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