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almost arrested for "falsifying government documents"

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  • SilverStone641

    New Member
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    Oct 9, 2009
    3
    1
    Dallas, TX
    Hey all. I had a bit of a harrowing experience last night. background, i live in texas and took my texas CHL and my Utah CHL, but for financial reasons i only sent in my Utah documentation. anyways, i get pulled over in rockwall for running a stop-sign and failing to signal intent to turn. The office requested my DL and naturally i gave him my CHL as well. he later told me he assumed it was a second drivers license and didn't pay it any attention. he came back to my car nearly 20 minutes later and asked if i had my weapon on me, i said that i did.

    by now there were three cars and four officers on scene. thats when things took a turn for the worse. i had some paintball guns lying on the floor of the back seat. the secondary officer noticed the butts sticking out and immediately went into threat mode. they drew weapons and pulled me and my brothers from the car, frisked us all and sat us on the curb. they took my gun and pocket knife away at this time and put it in the squad car.

    by now their sergeant had showed up on the scene, now we're looking at four cars total. they talked amongst themselves for a long time and finally an officer came over and said "look, we can't verify that your CHL is valid or even legit. theres no swipe-strip on the back. we called utah and there is no record of you(it's 0130) at this point you're looking at falsifying government documents(my brother told me later that he overheard the officers ask each other if they were gonna need the cuffs. they said thats what it looks like.

    they asked me exactly how i obtained the CHL and if i had ever lived in utah(they asked this at least 3 times) i told them i had taken the dallas course and that the instructor had offered the Utah class and i thought it was a good idea. he claims that utah is NOT reciprocal with texas and that the CHL isn't even valid without a Utah ID. they then went on to tell me that my utah CHL was most like a fraud and that i was taken. even though i told them that my CHL instructor stamped it with his licensing stamp and that i sent off all application documentation myself and not him. they still said that all this could be faked. They went on to say that i had been carrying a gun this past year illegally(this scared me greatly)

    finally they told me i was free to go, but they kept my weapon, two spare mags and the Utah CHL.(which i thought was against the law if i wasn't under arrest, but i wasn't about to argue)

    >basically my question is this. is a CHL that i recieved while living in texas(even though i've never held residence in utah) valid for carrying a weapon in texas? was i taken?

    any help or advice would be excellent.
    Target Sports
     

    okie556

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    Feb 12, 2009
    1,378
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    Longview, TX
    I know this is probably a moot point now but why if you were strapped for money would you not send in the paperwork for TX CHL and not UTAH? Not up on the law but Reciprocity agreement to me is you as a resident of TX holding a valid TX CHL can conceal carry in Utah or any other that has a reciprocial agreement with TX. Sorry for your hassel but I can see why the officers were concerned with you holding a UTAH CHL if you never lived there. Good Luck.
     

    txinvestigator

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    May 28, 2008
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    Ft Worth, TX
    INteresting first post.


    You need an attorney. If the story is accurate you should sue Rockwall PD for a violation of your civil rights. They had NO authority to seize your personal property, IMO. In fact, contact the local FBI and ask about a Federal Civil Rights violation.

    You might even contact the Texas Rangers about a Texas violation.

    Texas Penal Code
    Sec. 39.03. OFFICIAL OPPRESSION. (a) A public servant acting under color of his office or employment commits an offense if he:
    (1) intentionally subjects another to mistreatment or to arrest, detention, search, seizure, dispossession, assessment, or lien that he knows is unlawful;
    (2) intentionally denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power, or immunity, knowing his conduct is unlawful; or
    (3) intentionally subjects another to sexual harassment.


    And please people, can we please stay ON TOPIC and not turn this into a cop bash. We were not there, and don't know if the story is even partially true.
     

    txinvestigator

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    May 28, 2008
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    Ft Worth, TX
    >basically my question is this. is a CHL that i recieved while living in texas(even though i've never held residence in utah) valid for carrying a weapon in texas? was i taken?

    Yes, it is.

    And besides, you were in a motor vehicle, and if this happened after Sept 1 of 2007 you don't NEED a CHL to carry in your car.
     

    SilverStone641

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    Oct 9, 2009
    3
    1
    Dallas, TX
    I've always been the type to try to not cause waves and just live under the radar. i really don't want to pursue legal action. i just want my weapon back and to prove the my Utah CHL is indeed valid. thats it.

    INteresting first post.


    You need an attorney. If the story is accurate you should sue Rockwall PD for a violation of your civil rights. They had NO authority to seize your personal property, IMO. In fact, contact the local FBI and ask about a Federal Civil Rights violation.

    You might even contact the Texas Rangers about a Texas violation.




    And please people, can we please stay ON TOPIC and not turn this into a cop bash. We were not there, and don't know if the story is even partially true.
     

    TxEMTP69

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    Feb 17, 2009
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    Rockport
    I've always been the type to try to not cause waves and just live under the radar. i really don't want to pursue legal action. i just want my weapon back and to prove the my Utah CHL is indeed valid. thats it.
    Good possibility you might have to make waves to get it back. Good luck. If it were me and my rights violated, it would be known far and wide.

    I reallly need to contact those prepaid legal guys
     

    randmplumbingllc

    Active Member
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    0   0   0
    Jun 15, 2009
    652
    21
    El Paso
    Hey all. I had a bit of a harrowing experience last night. background, i live in texas and took my texas CHL and my Utah CHL, but for financial reasons i only sent in my Utah documentation. anyways, i get pulled over in rockwall for running a stop-sign and failing to signal intent to turn. The office requested my DL and naturally i gave him my CHL as well. he later told me he assumed it was a second drivers license and didn't pay it any attention. he came back to my car nearly 20 minutes later and asked if i had my weapon on me, i said that i did.

    by now there were three cars and four officers on scene. thats when things took a turn for the worse. i had some paintball guns lying on the floor of the back seat. the secondary officer noticed the butts sticking out and immediately went into threat mode. they drew weapons and pulled me and my brothers from the car, frisked us all and sat us on the curb. they took my gun and pocket knife away at this time and put it in the squad car.

    by now their sergeant had showed up on the scene, now we're looking at four cars total. they talked amongst themselves for a long time and finally an officer came over and said "look, we can't verify that your CHL is valid or even legit. theres no swipe-strip on the back. we called utah and there is no record of you(it's 0130) at this point you're looking at falsifying government documents(my brother told me later that he overheard the officers ask each other if they were gonna need the cuffs. they said thats what it looks like.

    they asked me exactly how i obtained the CHL and if i had ever lived in utah(they asked this at least 3 times) i told them i had taken the dallas course and that the instructor had offered the Utah class and i thought it was a good idea. he claims that utah is NOT reciprocal with texas and that the CHL isn't even valid without a Utah ID. they then went on to tell me that my utah CHL was most like a fraud and that i was taken. even though i told them that my CHL instructor stamped it with his licensing stamp and that i sent off all application documentation myself and not him. they still said that all this could be faked. They went on to say that i had been carrying a gun this past year illegally(this scared me greatly)

    finally they told me i was free to go, but they kept my weapon, two spare mags and the Utah CHL.(which i thought was against the law if i wasn't under arrest, but i wasn't about to argue)

    >basically my question is this. is a CHL that i recieved while living in texas(even though i've never held residence in utah) valid for carrying a weapon in texas? was i taken?

    any help or advice would be excellent.

    Someone correct me, if I'm wrong, but there is nowhere in the Texas law that states that if you are a texas resident, that you have to have a "Texas CHL".

    I know Arizona has that stipulation in its statutes, but I am not 100% sure on Texas.
     

    okie556

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    Feb 12, 2009
    1,378
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    Longview, TX
    He was stopped while in his car. You do not need a CHL to have a handgun on your person while you are in your car.

    He did not need a CHL.

    Thanks TI.......I always defer to your knowledge and learn something new everyday. Understand now.....can be on person while in the vehicle....just can't exit and carry outside vehicle without CHL.
     

    Big country

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    Mar 6, 2009
    4,318
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    Cedar Park,TX
    I don't know the laws regaurding Utah's CHL permits but if your civil rights were violated you might need to make a few waves to get your stuff back and show the country that folks will still stand up to keep their rights. just my .


    And please people, can we please stay ON TOPIC and not turn this into a cop bash. We were not there, and don't know if the story is even partially true.
    +1
     

    Texas42

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    Nov 21, 2008
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    Texas
    Silverstone, do what TxI says.

    Good luck. Hope you get your property back. I hope the process isn't going to be too bad.
     

    F350-6

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
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    2   0   0
    May 25, 2009
    4,237
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    I'd be willing to bet that whoever you got the Utah CHL from has whatever references, codes, titles, or whatever necessary to prove that a Utah license is valid in Texas. I'd even consider seeing if you can find a Utah instructor from Rockwall who might be willing to help inform the local authorities since that would serve his / her purpose too.

    I'm sure this will be resolved, but it's probably of low importance to them, so as mentioned, you might need to make a few waves to get the process moving. Let us know how this turns out.
     
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