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  • TrailDust

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    I've got a rant for you. What I'm fed up with is how everything in America now is called a "right." People claims rights for everything nowadays, from gay marriage to health care. Who said those are rights?! Show me one passage in the Bible that says gay marriage is a right, or that government-run health care is an 11th Commandment. If jackasses are going to run around declaring rights, then I say what about the most basic of all human rights: The need to eat. THAT is our most basic human right, since without food or water we absolutely cannot survive. Therefore, all food and drink should be provided to the public for free, or at the very least at a dramatically reduced cost due to government subsidization.

    I say we're fools and being cheated big time by getting government-run health care, food and water for free should come first. Stand up for you most basic human right and to the government that will supply them to you.
     

    Wolfwood

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    hey! you have no right to ciritcize The State!
    echelon is watching!
     

    navyguy

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    I believe the only intrinsic right you have is to PURSUE the things you need and want, and to be left alone by the government to do so. The things that are enumerated in the constitution and Bill of Rights are there to protect the citizens from tyranny by the government, not to grant free shit to people.
     

    MadMo44Mag

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    I believe the only intrinsic right you have is to PURSUE the things you need and want, and to be left alone by the government to do so. The things that are enumerated in the constitution and Bill of Rights are there to protect the citizens from tyranny by the government, not to grant free shit to people.
    Amen and +10001!!
     

    Bob Loblaw

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    Show me one passage in the Bible that says gay marriage is a right
    so our rights are limited to what's in the bible?
    How about stoning your children when they piss you off?

    Our rights to liberty extend only as far as our neighbors' property.

    This goes both ways, you only have the right to tell me what I can't do so far as it affects you. I know I'm probably the minority here defending gay rights, but an infringement on any liberty is an infringement on all liberties. Gun rights, homosexual rights, drug addicts rights and property rights are all the same thing.
     

    TrailDust

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    so our rights are limited to what's in the bible?
    How about stoning your children when they piss you off?

    Our rights to liberty extend only as far as our neighbors' property.

    This goes both ways, you only have the right to tell me what I can't do so far as it affects you. I know I'm probably the minority here defending gay rights, but an infringement on any liberty is an infringement on all liberties. Gun rights, homosexual rights, drug addicts rights and property rights are all the same thing.

    I should have included those right granted by the Constitution as well when writing that earlier material, and clarified the Bible as being a source of "guidance" IMO.

    I would have to say that like it or not, this country was founded by people who had extremely strong religious beliefs, which are reflected in the wording of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Homosexual rights were not addressed in those documents, but guns were. Health care was not addressed nor was the food, since the belief system in those days were that a person/family took care of his or her own.

    I think where this country went wrong was it did not follow Thomas Jefferson's desire to have a weak central government, weak state and county governments, but have most of the laws/governing body at the city or town level. That form of government would have granted each person their basic rights as outlined in the Constitution, but citizens could pursue their liberty in communities of like-minded individuals. That would have allowed a much easier path for people who wanted their "right" to gay marriage to live in whatever city granted that, but it would not be thrust onto or otherwise be made a right for the rest of the country. Health care, same thing.
     

    thorkyl

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    a chicken in every pot
    a home for everyone

    People only have 2 true rights

    1 - to be conceived
    2 - to eventually die

    Other than that we are free to do what we please as long as it is accord with our God
    and we do not upset the almighty obamanation and his sack of pelosi
     

    M. Sage

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    I should have included those right granted by the Constitution as well when writing that earlier material, and clarified the Bible as being a source of "guidance" IMO.

    I would have to say that like it or not, this country was founded by people who had extremely strong religious beliefs, which are reflected in the wording of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Homosexual rights were not addressed in those documents, but guns were. Health care was not addressed nor was the food, since the belief system in those days were that a person/family took care of his or her own.

    I think where this country went wrong was it did not follow Thomas Jefferson's desire to have a weak central government, weak state and county governments, but have most of the laws/governing body at the city or town level. That form of government would have granted each person their basic rights as outlined in the Constitution, but citizens could pursue their liberty in communities of like-minded individuals. That would have allowed a much easier path for people who wanted their "right" to gay marriage to live in whatever city granted that, but it would not be thrust onto or otherwise be made a right for the rest of the country. Health care, same thing.

    There were a lot of things the Founders didn't go right out and define as rights, even though it's pretty obvious to a thinking person that those things are rights.

    Funny you talk about the strong Christian convictions of the founders and then talk about the vision of Jefferson who was lukewarm toward Christianity at best.

    I'm with Thorkyl on his definition of the scope of rights.
     

    Hawghauler

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    Hey TD,

    I am with you. The leftist party is a coalition of homosexuals, animal rights, earth first, green movement, self appointed minority Latino leaders, self appointed minority black leaders, socialist, and every other anti liberty weenie you can think of that unite in a concept of taking everything free people have created and earned.
     

    Texas1911

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    If you are a true Christian then you would believe in socialism.

    I think it's equally hypocritical for the bible beating right to think their iconoclast 1950s lifestyle has any better resemblance to personal freedom as well.

    Government made rules respecting a public union. That should extend to homosexuals as well. God, as in the Church, has no place in American politics. Theological persecution has been the root of the exodus to North America, and the driving force, in part, of disenfranchising a centroid Church from the Constitution. They didn't want a Protestant England, or a Catholic Germany to be the mold for our new nation. There was large amounts of disdain for the established Church.

    Furthermore, people choose their own personal motivations to prohibit the freedom of others. Those same "God fearing individuals" prohibited women from voting because they thought it was right, and earlier yet they prohibited anyone that wasn't white from voting, because they thought it was right.

    For the same reason someone has no claim to deny my right to self-defense, you also have no claim to deny someone a service of the government that represents them.

    You have every right to not accept it morally, but many people fail to disassociate that from governmental control. It's the same mindset as the people we all berate in the politics section, just another flavor and another freedom to take away.
     

    Hawghauler

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    I have no problem with equal rights for all, but there are groups that want more than equality. They want special protections and they want to do so with my money. Some groups want preferential contract awards or hiring based upon a country of origin that their ancestors may have hailed from. An ass whoopin for one guy is a hate crime for another. Being against illegal border jumping criminals is defined by many as being a racist. Go figure. California in one of their proposition votes overwhelmingly supported denying tax payer funds to criminal aliens. The goivernment over ruled them and took their money. I don't understand how a true Christian should be a believer in socialism? No disrepect intended when I say please enlighten me.
     

    cuate

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    Hey TD,

    I am with you. The leftist party is a coalition of homosexuals, animal rights, earth first, green movement, self appointed minority Latino leaders, self appointed minority black leaders, socialist, and every other anti liberty weenie you can think of that unite in a concept of taking everything free people have created and earned.

    Hawghauler, You'll do to ride the river with !! If you are familiar with that old Texas term meaning "I reckon as how we agee on most things"....
     

    Texas1911

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    I have no problem with equal rights for all, but there are groups that want more than equality. They want special protections and they want to do so with my money. Some groups want preferential contract awards or hiring based upon a country of origin that their ancestors may have hailed from. An ass whoopin for one guy is a hate crime for another. Being against illegal border jumping criminals is defined by many as being a racist. Go figure. California in one of their proposition votes overwhelmingly supported denying tax payer funds to criminal aliens. The goivernment over ruled them and took their money. I don't understand how a true Christian should be a believer in socialism? No disrepect intended when I say please enlighten me.

    Preferential treatment is unconstitutional, whether it's based upon skin color, sex, or sexual preference. I completely agree along those lines, but I do not buy into the hypocracy associated with the "pick and choose" portion of society.

    Christianity teaches mediocrity and to give to others in need. Many of the teachings are associated with socialistic ideals. Frankly, Christianity and socialism are moral ideals. It would be nice if we could all work as a team for the greater good, but it's the implication of socialism into the human society that causes problems. You see the same thing in Christians, they simply pick and choose what they want out of the religion and skip the rest by chalking it up as "well, it says we are all sinners".

    It all boils down to people are going to do what they want to do. Government in this country was built upon that ideology, and rooted in the basis that you may do as you please so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Government was retained over a pure anarchy because it is Government that actually retains our freedom. Government is used as a tool to resist those that would transgress against it, but now ... it is being used as a tool to transgress against us.

    Thomas Jefferson and James Madison spoke alot about the role of government. They were incredibly true.
     

    Gutshot

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    The most basic right is the right to have sex, and they are supplying it to you in heaps....you can't tell me you are not getting a good screwing every day!
     

    Jeff B

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    I'll take these as adequate.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.[/QUOTE]

    Jeff B.
     

    TrailDust

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    Funny you talk about the strong Christian convictions of the founders and then talk about the vision of Jefferson who was lukewarm toward Christianity at best.

    Nobody's perfect, not even Jefferson. Heck, I have major disagreements with his ideas about economics.


    Hey TD,

    I am with you. The leftist party is a coalition of homosexuals, animal rights, earth first, green movement, self appointed minority Latino leaders, self appointed minority black leaders, socialist, and every other anti liberty weenie you can think of that unite in a concept of taking everything free people have created and earned.

    +1 We reach, man!


    If you are a true Christian then you would believe in socialism.

    I totally disagree with that. Charity through personal choice is one thing, but government mandated sharing of wealth is tyranny and, taken to it's Biblical conclusion, a violation of the Ten Commandments because it is stealing.

    -
     

    TrailDust

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    I have no problem with equal rights for all, but there are groups that want more than equality. They want special protections and they want to do so with my money. Some groups want preferential contract awards or hiring based upon a country of origin that their ancestors may have hailed from. An ass whoopin for one guy is a hate crime for another. Being against illegal border jumping criminals is defined by many as being a racist. Go figure. California in one of their proposition votes overwhelmingly supported denying tax payer funds to criminal aliens. The goivernment over ruled them and took their money. I don't understand how a true Christian should be a believer in socialism? No disrepect intended when I say please enlighten me.

    More, Hawg, more! You have yet to utter a statement I don't agree with.


    I think it's equally hypocritical for the bible beating right to think their iconoclast 1950s lifestyle has any better resemblance to personal freedom as well.

    I don't consider the socially influenced, cookie-cutter lifestyles of the 1950s with an inhibiting of personal freedom. On the whole those were personal choices, not government mandates.

    Government made rules respecting a public union. That should extend to homosexuals as well. God, as in the Church, has no place in American politics. Theological persecution has been the root of the exodus to North America, and the driving force, in part, of disenfranchising a centroid Church from the Constitution. They didn't want a Protestant England, or a Catholic Germany to be the mold for our new nation. There was large amounts of disdain for the established Church.

    Funny thing is the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the writing of our founding fathers in collections such as The Federalist Papers are drenched in religion and the connection of God and man. Personally, I'd like to see today's hypocritical federal government either rediscover its religious roots or expunge all religion from the government (ie., remove In God We Trust from the money supply). Separation of church and state everyone screams, well let's see the government live it!

    -
     

    Texas42

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    Language is the biggest barrier in US history. People use words without really thinking about their meaning.

    Many people think, "I need," and therefore they have a right to it because they think they need it. This is obviously false. Need does not equate to a right.

    "Total" Christianity does not equal socialism. Christianity is not simply giving to others and helping others out. It is conforming to the will of God (in a nutshell). It is more of a Monarchy with God at the top. It really has no bearing on political, it does have a bearing on the people. You cannot sepate a man and his religion. You also cannot separate the government from the men (and women) who govern.

    Socialism, in a nutshell, is enforcing total equality on a population by the collective ownership of the means of production. They are societys of equality. Total equality is in conflict with freedom. People don't realize this. A free society is never going to be equal, and an equal society is never going to be free. (I believe in equality before the law, but I am ok with someone being able to buy a better lawyer than me. Economic equality, on the other hand, is not something that we, as a society, need or want to be concerned about.)

    Again, while I really don't know what the founding fathers derived our rights from, I know that the founding fathers thought we DIDN'T derive our basic, sacred rights from the government.

    I don't really buy into the idea that we have rights based on the fact that we are living things. If we derived our rights by simply being alive, then all living things would have the same rights. Animals, trees, plants, bacterial ect. We cannot enforce our rights if we supplant the rights of other creatures in this paradym.

    In my personal, humble opinion, we derive our natural rights from God, quite simply because nothing else makes sense to me.

    Again, I really don't know how the founding fathers derived our rights. I think the only logical derivation of our rights stems from the supernatural. I'm not advocating for a theocracy. I think you can derive human rights from God, yet not derive a whole system of governance based on the Bible. Quite frankly, the Bible doesn't set up a political system (unlike other religions) and so that idea is kind of silly.

    I just don't know how you can set a group of rights up as sacred, above the authority of any government, relying on a higher power.

    I know there are going to be others that disagree with me. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just stating my opinion.
     
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