Southwest indoor soccer now sell alcohol. 51% sign at entrance

[Texasslinger]

So southwest indoor soccer now sells alcohol at the snack stand. It's just an indoor field with small bleachers. I looked on the tabc site and it's just a private business. So are you still able to conceal? Open? Was anyone ever able to conceal or open carry inside? Not sure if you would classify this as a sporting arena cuz it's not like anyone pays to watch games. Thanks


How do we arm the other 11??

 

[London]

You need to call TABC and have them investigate this. Unless they also own the snack stand they aren't supposed to post the entire building; just the part that sells alcohol.

 

[locke_n_load]

You need to call TABC and have them investigate this. Unless they also own the snack stand they aren't supposed to post the entire building; just the part that sells alcohol.

The license goes to the address. So if a private vendor inside the establishment sells alcohol and makes more than 51% of its revenue for on premise consumption, then the whole establishment is off limits. The law needs to change next year to remove all authority from TABC in regards to weapons - blue and red signs.

 

[London]

The license goes to the address. So if a private vendor inside the establishment sells alcohol and makes more than 51% of its revenue for on premise consumption, then the whole establishment is off limits. The law needs to change next year to remove all authority from TABC in regards to weapons - blue and red signs.

I talked to TABC about a very similar situation with a flea market. They told me if the vendor has a booth number then only the vendor should be licensed and posted. Definitely not the whole building. The booth number IS part of the address, just like an apt. number. That's how they get their mail, after all.

Asking two different bureaucrats the same question and getting two different answers should be expected, though.

 

[txinvestigator]

So southwest indoor soccer now sells alcohol at the snack stand. It's just an indoor field with small bleachers. I looked on the tabc site and it's just a private business. So are you still able to conceal? Open? Was anyone ever able to conceal or open carry inside? Not sure if you would classify this as a sporting arena cuz it's not like anyone pays to watch games. Thanks


How do we arm the other 11??

Sporting arenas are not off limits.

That address is 12950 Sugar Ridge in Stafford. It is 51% and carry there is prohibited. M.A.K.E it happen is the name of the place.

 

[locke_n_load]

I talked to TABC about a very similar situation with a flea market. They told me if the vendor has a booth number then only the vendor should be licensed and posted. Definitely not the whole building. The booth number IS part of the address, just like an apt. number. That's how they get their mail, after all.

Asking two different bureaucrats the same question and getting two different answers should be expected, though.

I have heard very wrong information from TABC officers/employees. Reeaaallyyy want this next legislative session to remove any force of law from blue and red TABC signs/licenses...

 

[txinvestigator]

I have heard very wrong information from TABC officers/employees. Reeaaallyyy want this next legislative session to remove any force of law from blue and red TABC signs/licenses...

The red signs have no force of law now. It is not illegal to carry past a 51% sign. It is illegal to carry in a 51% place. Penal code 46.035 says nothing about 51% signs, other than offering a defense to prosecution if you are charged with carrying in a 51% place that failed to post the sign.

So are you just wanting to eliminate the proscription from carrying in a 51% place?

 

[locke_n_load]

The red signs have no force of law now. It is not illegal to carry past a 51% sign. It is illegal to carry in a 51% place. Penal code 46.035 says nothing about 51% signs, other than offering a defense to prosecution if you are charged with carrying in a 51% place that failed to post the sign.

So are you just wanting to eliminate the proscription from carrying in a 51% place?

I know.
I want 51% liquor licenses to mean nothing to a licensed carrier. If your going to a bar and not drinking, you should be free to carry unless posted 30.06/30.07.

 

[txinvestigator]

I know.
I want 51% liquor licenses to mean nothing to a licensed carrier. If your going to a bar and not drinking, you should be free to carry unless posted 30.06/30.07.

Gotcha.

and I agree

 

[ZX9RCAM]

The red signs have no force of law now. It is not illegal to carry past a 51% sign. It is illegal to carry in a 51% place. Penal code 46.035 says nothing about 51% signs, other than offering a defense to prosecution if you are charged with carrying in a 51% place that failed to post the sign.

So are you just wanting to eliminate the proscription from carrying in a 51% place?

If the red signs hold no weight, how is one notified the "business" is a 51% place?
Is there some different signage now, or am I just totally confused?

 

[Texasslinger]

There is a second entrance where there is no sign displayed. They just serve beer and wine for Petes sake. Now they wanna prohibit weapons everywhere inside?!


How do we arm the other 11??

 

[locke_n_load]

If the red signs hold no weight, how is one notified the "business" is a 51% place?
Is there some different signage now, or am I just totally confused?

It is against the law to carry into an establishment that makes more than half of its revenue from on-premise consumption. There is nothing in the law about walking past a 51% sign. However, most prosecutors would not press charges if someone carried into a 51% establishment that did not have the proper signage because you were not notified. Also, if a place had 51% signs, but actually had a blue license (like a restaurant), you would not be breaking the law if you carried there, even though you passed a 51% sign.

 

[locke_n_load]

There is a second entrance where there is no sign displayed. They just serve beer and wine for Petes sake. Now they wanna prohibit weapons everywhere inside?!


How do we arm the other 11??

It's Texas law, and not well done. Lobby for support for law changes next year to remove force of law from TABC regarding firearms.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

It is against the law to carry into an establishment that makes more than half of its revenue from on-premise consumption. There is nothing in the law about walking past a 51% sign. However, most prosecutors would not press charges if someone carried into a 51% establishment that did not have the proper signage because you were not notified. Also, if a place had 51% signs, but actually had a blue license (like a restaurant), you would not be breaking the law if you carried there, even though you passed a 51% sign.

If that answered my question, I'm even more confused now, lol.

 

[locke_n_load]

If that answered my question, I'm even more confused now, lol.

The red 51% signs have no force of law - the type of liquor license the business is issued has the force of law. A business can post the wrong sign, let's say they post a red 51% sign instead of the correct "ok to carry with license" blue sign for their permit type. If you carry past that 51% sign with a license, you have not broken the law since they don't have that actual permit. Conversely, if the place has a red 51% permit, but does not post signage or puts up the wrong blue sign, you have broken the law if you carry there - but you would most likely not be prosecuted since you didn't know and the business screwed up as well.

For simplicity, don't carry at places that have the 51% sign posted!

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Go back & re-read the first line of my question.


Now, is the red 51% sign null & void in this instance only, or always?


ETA:

Not trying to be argumentative, thanks for trying to explain to an idiot.

 

[Texasslinger]

Sporting arenas are not off limits.

That address is 12950 Sugar Ridge in Stafford. It is 51% and carry there is prohibited. M.A.K.E it happen is the name of the place.

They're not getting a dime of my money. Won't do much. Maybe I'll write em a letter and tell them...


How do we arm the other 11??

 

[locke_n_load]

Go back & re-read the first line of my question.


Now, is the red 51% sign null & void in this instance only, or always?


ETA:

Not trying to be argumentative, thanks for trying to explain to an idiot.

For simplicity, the red 51% sign at this location is valid and it is illegal to carry there. There are no requirements to have the sign posted at entrances. Even if the sign was taken down, assuming the vendor's license was still active and red, it would still be illegal to carry there.
The red sign is only void if they have the wrong sign up (posted red sign but they have a blue permit).

TXI can come and clarify about signs vs. permits if he wants, I am just making the generic point.

Per Texas Penal Code 46.035, there is no notification requirement for 51% locations. It may break the law for the business not to post the sign or proper sign, but there is no written defense to prosecution for LTC/CHL holders if there is no sign.

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

 

[ZX9RCAM]

THAT helped a lot, thank you.

I had no idea that businesses were not required to post if they met 51%.

 

[locke_n_load]

THAT helped a lot, thank you.

I had no idea that businesses were not required to post if they met 51%.

No problem.
It may break TABC's laws for the business not to post signs, so the business broke the law, but license holders have nothing written in the penal code for their defense if the signs aren't there. Would a license holder be prosecuted if they carried into a 51% location and the proper signs weren't posted? Probably not, but that's not a guarantee.