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Oh... CRAP!! Sold Pistol Used In a Crime

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  • TheDan

    deplorable malcontent scofflaw
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 11, 2008
    27,536
    96
    Austin - Rockdale
    This is my fear about selling to an individual where the gun is registered in my name with ATF. How do you prove you actually sold it.
    How do they prove you didn't sell it? I had to have the conversation with a couple ATF agents once. Conversation went something like...
    atf: You were the last known person to own this gun...
    me: I sold it.
    atf: To who?
    me: Don't actually know him. Mike was the name he gave me.
    atf: Anything else you can tell us about him?
    me: He was driving a silver compact sedan; cant remember the make. He looked like he lifted weights.
    atf: Ok, thanks for helping us out.

    What's extra funny is I was given a heads up that the ATF was tracing it. It took the ATF agents almost a year before they actually reached out to me.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    OJ knives

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 12, 2017
    100
    11
    78130
    I once asked a U.S. Marshal (to see what he would say) how I could register a gun that I bought face to face. His answer was (Why, would you, if its not in your name no one knows you have it.)
     

    Mike_from_Texas

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 10, 2010
    1,468
    96
    North Texas
    Unless you are already a suspect, you don't need to prove to whom you sold the gun. In fact, having a receipt can bite you on the ass.

    Thank you! Finally someone that would know gets it.

    If anyone is that scared, then don’t ever sell a gun.

    If I buy a private sale gun AT BEST I’ll show my LTC but that’s it. You ain’t getting a copy and I ain’t signing a bill of sale.

    I sold a stripped lower to my brother a couple years back. He built it into a nice AR. His house was broken into and it was stolen. An ATF agent called me, I told them I sold it to my brother. They called him, he gave them a description of the gun and they told him he’d get it back after the case was closed.

    I could have been a dick and told them I sold it but didn’t know to whom. It would still be up to them to prove I was the one that was responsible for the crime committed with the gun. I’m not responsible for what someone does with property I no longer own. I’ll help the LE if I can but I won’t keep a paper trail on a private sale gun.




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    TexasRedneck

    1911 Nut
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Jan 23, 2009
    14,560
    96
    New Braunfels, TX
    I’ll help the LE if I can but I won’t keep a paper trail on a private sale gun.

    Argued that on this very site for a number of years, and many kept telling me how wrong I was, and what a good idea it was. As I told 'em - do what you want, but you will NOT get a BOS or a copy of ANY of my personal information - period. They're welcome to look at it, but that's it.

    But what do *I* know......only been doin' this for 40+ years.
     

    Mrvmax

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 20, 2018
    63
    11
    Friendswood
    This is my fear about selling to an individual where the gun is registered in my name with ATF. How do you prove you actually sold it.
    There is no gun registration in Texas. If you buy from an FFL they keep the 4473 for at least 20 years but the ATF does not have that info. If you happen to buy two within 5 days a multiple handgun sales form with lots of personal info goes to the ATF and then the ATF has all your info and the gun info. As long as you buy one at a time the ATF normally does not have the info (there are some ways but for the most part they don’t).
    Traces start with the manufacturer then the distributor then the dealer then the initial buyer. There could be other paper trails if a dealer buys it down the line.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,540
    96
    Dallas
    My coworker trying to sell his CA-purchased PS90 and KSG is killing me with this shit.

    Mistake 1 was me offering to help sell it.

    Now he's insisting that he "get his name off of it" and only wants to sell thru an FFL.

    Maybe consignment thru a pawn shop would do this?

    I guess I could low-ball him, FFL it to my name, then flip it. But honestly I'm not a gun dealer and don't want the headache.




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    Mrvmax

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 20, 2018
    63
    11
    Friendswood
    My coworker trying to sell his CA-purchased PS90 and KSG is killing me with this shit.

    Mistake 1 was me offering to help sell it.

    Now he's insisting that he "get his name off of it" and only wants to sell thru an FFL.

    Maybe consignment thru a pawn shop would do this?

    I guess I could low-ball him, FFL it to my name, then flip it. But honestly I'm not a gun dealer and don't want the headache.




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    You can have him do a private party transfer through an FFL. I’ve done it for people that “wanted to get it out of their name”.
     

    TreyG-20

    TGT Addict
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    39   0   0
    Dec 16, 2011
    6,367
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    Central
    If you happen to buy two within 5 days a multiple handgun sales form with lots of personal info goes to the ATF and then the ATF has all your info and the gun info. As long as you buy one at a time the ATF normally does not have the info (there are some ways but for the most part they don’t).
    Would you mind explaining this further? Why does it matter if I buy more than 1 at a time? What changes are on a 4473 besides another firearm? What other personal information is sent to the ATF?
     

    Mrvmax

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 20, 2018
    63
    11
    Friendswood

    Mrvmax

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 20, 2018
    63
    11
    Friendswood
    Would you mind explaining this further? Why does it matter if I buy more than 1 at a time? What changes are on a 4473 besides another firearm? What other personal information is sent to the ATF?
    The ATF gets a lot of info when you “qualify” for a multiple purchase. Just check out the forms I linked, this also goes to the Chief law Enforcement Officer.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,732
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    Learn something new everyday. I had not heard this before. Thanks for the link.
    Me either.
    Is the individual making the purchase made aware of this at the time of purchase, or is it just done by the FFL?
    I purchased 2 ARs at same time about 12 months ago, and nothing was said to me.
     

    Shady

    The One And Only
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 24, 2013
    4,645
    96
    looks like I made another government list. I think they know more about me than I do.
     

    TreyG-20

    TGT Addict
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    39   0   0
    Dec 16, 2011
    6,367
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    Central
    Me either.
    Is the individual making the purchase made aware of this at the time of purchase, or is it just done by the FFL?
    I purchased 2 ARs at same time about 12 months ago, and nothing was said to me.
    I purchased 2 handguns at a pawnshop a few years back and never heard anything about it from them.
     

    pronstar

    TGT Addict
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    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2017
    10,540
    96
    Dallas
    Me either.
    Is the individual making the purchase made aware of this at the time of purchase, or is it just done by the FFL?
    I purchased 2 ARs at same time about 12 months ago, and nothing was said to me.

    Applies to handguns only.


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