Places its illegal to carry

[txinvestigator]

Section 411.204 of the Texas Govt. Code states it is to be prominately displayed at each entrance to the business.
subsection (c) requires the sign to in both English and spanish, apppear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and as you've already noted it must contain the number "51" in solid red at least 5 inches in height, and be in a conspicuous place visible to the public.
Section (e) is catchy, it states this section(411.204) does not appy to an establishment that has a food and beverage certificate issued under the Alcohol Beverage Code.
Ya know they do that on purpose, because if it 411.204 doesn't apply they get'em with Chap 11 or 61 of the Alcohol beverage code, requiring the business to post the other sign.
Best thing to do is keep your eyes open, your lips shut and your partner concealed.

Just remember, none of that has any effect on the penal code making it a crime to carry in a 51% location. It means nothing to CHL holders.

 

[jordanmills]

Section 411.204 of the Texas Govt. Code states it is to be prominately displayed at each entrance to the business.
subsection (c) requires the sign to in both English and spanish, apppear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and as you've already noted it must contain the number "51" in solid red at least 5 inches in height, and be in a conspicuous place visible to the public.
Section (e) is catchy, it states this section(411.204) does not appy to an establishment that has a food and beverage certificate issued under the Alcohol Beverage Code.
Ya know they do that on purpose, because if it 411.204 doesn't apply they get'em with Chap 11 or 61 of the Alcohol beverage code, requiring the business to post the other sign.
Best thing to do is keep your eyes open, your lips shut and your partner concealed.

At my local bar (where they sometimes sell real food, you know, chili and crawfish in season, etc, but they're still 51%) they have one sign stapled to a post inside at the bar facing the back wall. Nothing at the entrace at all. But I still ain't carrying. I haven't bothered to talk to TABC about it - it seems that it might come up useful for someone else with a CHL. You know, they catch a ride with a buddy to a "crawfish boil" and it turns out to be a bar. Entirely innocent intent, but it will allow an easy out if he gets in legal trouble for carrying there. Okay, realistically, nobody is going to go to a chili cookoff or crawfish boil and not cool it down with some beer, but it's a nice thought.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

In Texas .. If the establishment has a 51% sign, you can not legally carry a concealed handgun inside whether you drink or not

Unless you're a cop wanting to shoot bikers.

 

[txinvestigator]

Unless you're a cop wanting to shoot bikers.

WTF? Did I miss something?

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

WTF? Did I miss something?

Nah. You're a better shot than that.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

WTF? Did I miss something?

Seattle cop shot a Hells Angel in a Sturgis bar.

 

[Wolfwood]

the question is, was he out to shoot bikers, or gang members....

 

[Graymutt]

Isnt the recent change to the posting of the 51% sign, made so that if a CHL makes a mistake and the establishment doesnt have a sign properly posted the holder can have a legal arguement that says hey I didnt know it was a 51% establishment. I am not saying I would even want to make that arguement. Example, you stop at what you think is a food place, walk in and realize it is a bar. You turn to walk out and get caught for some reason. I am saying this because something happened to me I wasnt carrying at the time, but I didnt realize it was a 51% place until I had already walked in, and ordered. The only sign they had was mostly covered by a advertisement.

 

[smschulz]

walk in and realize it is a bar. You turn to walk out and get caught for some reason.

This part is unrealistic. If this happens you have done nothing wrong. Why would anyone stop you on the way OUT?

 

[txinvestigator]

It is defense to prosecution if a 51% sign was not posted. A defense tp prosecution means you can still be arrested and charged. Although, if it is clear you meet the defense, you might NOT be arrested.

 

[Graymutt]

This part is unrealistic. If this happens you have done nothing wrong. Why would anyone stop you on the way OUT?

Have you ever had REALLY bad luck. I have there are days this would not surprise me.

 

[txinvestigator]

This part is unrealistic. If this happens you have done nothing wrong. Why would anyone stop you on the way OUT?

Who knows, the bottom line is you do not have to be caught inside. If it can be proven you were there armed you can be charged.

 

[Tyrannosullyrex]

Here's a list from our forum sponsor: DoubleActionCHL.com - Cheat Sheet=

Very helpful as I was confused what was meant by "racetrack".

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Very helpful as I was confused what was meant by "racetrack".

Physical premises* of racetracks where pari-mutuel betting takes place. That would be horse tracks or dog tracks.

 

[jordanmills]

This part is unrealistic. If this happens you have done nothing wrong. Why would anyone stop you on the way OUT?

You may not have done something wrong, but you'd have done something illegal. However unintentional the offense.

 

[majormadmax]

At my local bar (where they sometimes sell real food, you know, chili and crawfish in season, etc, but they're still 51%) they have one sign stapled to a post inside at the bar facing the back wall. Nothing at the entrace at all. But I still ain't carrying. I haven't bothered to talk to TABC about it - it seems that it might come up useful for someone else with a CHL. You know, they catch a ride with a buddy to a "crawfish boil" and it turns out to be a bar. Entirely innocent intent, but it will allow an easy out if he gets in legal trouble for carrying there. Okay, realistically, nobody is going to go to a chili cookoff or crawfish boil and not cool it down with some beer, but it's a nice thought.

Yep, same with Floore Country Store and Cafe in Helotes. It's pretty much a restaurant during the day and a honky-tonk at night, but since over 51% of the overall revenue is generated by alcohol, they have a red 51% sign at the door. Since we usually go there during the day to eat, I didn't think about it; but luckily I saw it one day...

 

[chiefglocker]

1. Anywhere you're verbally told or told via the 30.06 sign not to carry.
2. School buildings and grounds (but you can in the parking lot....unless posted)
3. Courts.
4. Buildings with court offices
5. Post offices
6. 51% restaurants and bars
7. Sporting events
8. Polling places on the day of an election
9. racetrack
10. Secured section of an airport
11. A jail

Miss any? I have heard that the Post Master just recently dropped the bomb on carrying anywhere in or near a post office. Anyone know where I can confirm this?

Also, anyone have anymore detail on what constitutes a court office? As in where the judges chambers are? Or the cubicle farm where you go to pay tickets? What consitutes a court office? Also, do y'all know of any deliniation in the Penal Codes between local, state, and federal goverment offices?

I've been arguing round and round with a couple of people and the lines are getting blurred.

Just need some other opinions.

TX law says with in 300 feet of School Zone I am bit confused if one can have the gun in the parking lot. But I am sure we can keep inside the car by virtue of Castle Law.

Secondly I have seen some posted sign " No guns" ( not 30.06 or 51%) in the public ( city) parks and jogging trails. Does this sign have any effect on CHLers or is it just a Gun Buster sign ?

 

[txinvestigator]

TX law says with in 300 feet of School Zone I am bit confused if one can have the gun in the parking lot. But I am sure we can keep inside the car by virtue of Castle Law.

Texas law does not mention "school zones" regarding the carrying of firearms. Penal Code Section 46.03 makes it unlawful to carry on the premise of a school. The law defines premise as a building or portion of a building, and does not include a parking lot, riveway, parking garage, sidewalk, etc. So yes, you can have your gun in the parking lot.

The 300 foot issue is for enhanced penalties for committing a crime with a firearm within that distance to a school.

Secondly I have seen some posted sign " No guns" ( not 30.06 or 51%) in the public ( city) parks and jogging trails. Does this sign have any effect on CHLers or is it just a Gun Buster sign ?

Only 30.06 signs have effect on CHL holders. 51% is for places that derive 51% or more of their revenue for the sale of alcoholic beverages for ON Premise consumption. Having a 51% sign posted is not the limiting factor, the status of the location is. If a non-51% location posts a sign (such as a city park or jogging trail) it is not a crime to carry there. If a real 51% place (like a bar) fails to post a sign, you have a defense if you carry there.

Make sense?

 

[chiefglocker]

Thanks TXinvestigator

Texas law does not mention "school zones" regarding the carrying of firearms. Penal Code Section 46.03 makes it unlawful to carry on the premise of a school. The law defines premise as a building or portion of a building, and does not include a parking lot, riveway, parking garage, sidewalk, etc. So yes, you can have your gun in the parking lot.

The 300 foot issue is for enhanced penalties for committing a crime with a firearm within that distance to a school.



Only 30.06 signs have effect on CHL holders. 51% is for places that derive 51% or more of their revenue for the sale of alcoholic beverages for ON Premise consumption. Having a 51% sign posted is not the limiting factor, the status of the location is. If a non-51% location posts a sign (such as a city park or jogging trail) it is not a crime to carry there. If a real 51% place (like a bar) fails to post a sign, you have a defense if you carry there.

Make sense?

Loud and clear sir!

 

[codeman]

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