Universal background checks?

[AustinN4]

Yeah, but what software?

 

[Lunyfringe]

Has anything been said about how or if there would any enforcement. I mean what's the point without enforcement?

As you stated above, and I realize you are just stating the facts of it not necessarily supporting it, if it serves as documentation of a sale, then how does that work? If it's Federal law do the feds need to be called in every time someone is found with a gun? If it's a State law does local PD check out guns to ensure they were processed according to the law? Either way, how can that be done without a central database? Without a central database of UBC's and specific guns sold after date X the law is useless. Tracking down a 4473 at a specific dealer would not be a quick process. Do they hold you till then? Do they confiscate said firearm? What if the FFL is no longer in business? Do we wait for ATF to search through their so called "non-indexed" database and come up with an answer.

It leaves more questions then answers, which is probably the point.

The legislature is not concerned about enforcement, or even if the F'ing law works to prevent anything- they can say they "did something", and have a measurement (even if it's bovine scatology and they know it is) that they can point to how awesome they were for creating the POS law in the first place. This is politics, plain and simple.

For the rest of your questions:
-Same way it does now when there's no private sale in the history of a gun. It starts with the manufacturer if they're trying to backtrace a gun to it's current owner... then they follow the trail of FFLs. I'm sure they get frustrated if there's a private sale, because the trail ends.
-LE agency involved has to do with what the -current- crime is, I'd defer to an expert, but I believe fed/state or local LEOs can get a warrant to look at FFL log books... In the Colorado case, there was no law against possession of a gun that was sold privately- and there were exceptions such as gifting to family.
-You are correct IF it were illegal to posses a gun that had been privately sold, which is NOT the case unless there is a central database.
-Whether they hold you would depend on the situation at hand... as stated, it is not a crime to possess a gun that was privately sold, so unless another law comes into play (drug possession with the gun, felon in possession, in a prohibited area, etc) they would have no crime to charge you with.
-just as above, no reason to confiscate a legally owned firearm.
-if the FFL is no longer in business, the records are sent to the ATF... after a certain period the FFL is not required to keep records (20 years?) and the FFL can destroy them.
-I've heard their storage of such records is a disaster, and many have been destroyed by flood (ironic, since all my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident, right?)

TLDR; The determination after years of Universal BGC's in Colorado was that it was state-endorsed harassment.... it did nothing to prevent crime, since criminals will acquire guns thru illegal means anyway (we did see a very noticeable uptick in the number of midnight ramming of FFL stores with stolen trucks...) even big box stores like Bass Pro- they'ed crash thru with a stolen vehicle, run and grab as many guns as they could and get in another stolen vehicle to escape.

 

[Sam7sf]

NONE of us should want guns falling into the wrong hands

This is where universal bg checks fall into topics many don't wanna talk about. I don't want criminals doing bad things. Though lets say a prohibited person changes his life and lives their life with good intent. Imo their right to protect their home and family shouldn't be infringed on. A lot of gun owners who pass background checks aren't great people. They just haven't gotten caught doing whatever it is their doing. Fixing society has nothing to do with guns.

 

[Kar98]

The way current idiots want to implement UBC, it would be next to impossible to support.

With that stated, I could support an anonymous app or 800 number to be used for any reason. Enter the persons name and get a red light: green light confirmation #. You don’t need to give a reason for the check and you can choose to keep the conf # or not. Want to hire a baby sitter: use the app. Want to vote for someone: use the app. Want to sell a car: use the app. Want to date my daughter: use the app. Want to sell a gun: use the app.

That’s a true Universal Background Check. Not the useless crap they want to foist on us.

Yeah and nobody could possibly abuse or hack that system, LOL.

 

[jrbfishn]

NICS is already proof positive that backround checks will not stop prohibited persons from getting and using guns.


from an idjit coffeeholic

 

[Ole Cowboy]

The way current idiots want to implement UBC, it would be next to impossible to support.

With that stated, I could support an anonymous app or 800 number to be used for any reason. Enter the persons name and get a red light: green light confirmation #. You don’t need to give a reason for the check and you can choose to keep the conf # or not. Want to hire a baby sitter: use the app. Want to vote for someone: use the app. Want to sell a car: use the app. Want to date my daughter: use the app. Want to sell a gun: use the app.

That’s a true Universal Background Check. Not the useless crap they want to foist on us.

That won't work inside that box, you have to attach a criteria to it, in this case, full name, SS# and check box that says Gun purchase. Then it works

 

[avvidclif]

Maybe this wouldn’t even be a topic for discussion IF private sellers were more cautious and conscientious about who they sell their guns to? NONE of us should want guns falling into the wrong hands, yet many are only worried about getting the cash in hand without doing due diligence on who they are selling their guns to.
Personally, my standards for selling my guns are actually higher than that set forth by state and federal law. I run my own background checks using s/w that I pay for out of my own pocket. If I have any doubts whatsoever about the character and judgement of a potential buyer, I simply don’t sell to that person. My guns, my rules.

You might have a hard time selling a gun on the site as most are like I am. All you will get from me is green money, no name or anything else. If you want all my info and/or a bill of sale the sale won't happen. If you do post something for sale make note of your sale requirements to not waste the time of people who won't give it.

 

[Jigo23]

You might have a hard time selling a gun on the site as most are like I am. All you will get from me is green money, no name or anything else. If you want all my info and/or a bill of sale the sale won't happen. If you do post something for sale make note of your sale requirements to not waste the time of people who won't give it.

That’s easy sir, you won’t get my guns then. Wouldn’t want and don’t need someone’s money not willing to provide their name and proof of identification. Haven’t had any problem selling any gun so far, but thanks for your concern.
Again...my guns, my rules.
Just out of curiosity, if/when you sell a gun, you don’t require any ID whatsoever? You just take their “green money” no questions asked eh?
I guess one can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

 

[Sam7sf]

Jigo, these guys have a point. Im still used to oregon law and doing private transfers. Oregon used to be great and didn't care. Texas is probably going to be one of the last states with no third party by check. We need to keep it that way. I'm starting to like it on this forum and from what I can tell I would sell to regular posters without question. Just keep plugging away and be part of the community.

 

[Lunyfringe]

I guess one can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

I also don't provide my PII to strangers... to combat the problem of identity theft.

I'd much sooner use an FFL than give you my ID.

 

[Sam7sf]

Also jigo, I was like you too and I agree no one should tell us how to handle our property. Its your property until you take the cash and shake hands. On the flip side I don't need someone's private info...I'm not an agency that can protect that. Its a double edged sword. Texas has no laws to get you in trouble if someone commits a crime if a 4473 is traced back to you. You will probably get a knock on the door but nothing will happen.

 

[Jigo23]

This is where universal bg checks fall into topics many don't wanna talk about. I don't want criminals doing bad things. Though lets say a prohibited person changes his life and lives their life with good intent. Imo their right to protect their home and family shouldn't be infringed on. A lot of gun owners who pass background checks aren't great people. They just haven't gotten caught doing whatever it is their doing. Fixing society has nothing to do with guns.

I agree with everything you said, especially the last sentence.
I’m not infringing on anyone’s rights to own a gun, I’m just not willing to place one of MY guns in anyone’s hands who I have any doubts about whatsoever.

 

[Sam7sf]

I agree with everything you said, especially the last sentence.
I’m not infringing on anyone’s rights to own a gun, I’m just not willing to place one of MY guns in anyone’s hands who I have any doubts about whatsoever.

We can't control what other people do. I'm not 100 percent accurate when I judge someone. People make bad decisions. We just have to keep a state free so that you or I or anyone here doesn't lose our rights because we sold to the wrong person by mistake. When oregon was cool and I was in my early 20s I found out someone I sold to got popped for drugs. I wouldn't have even known he was like that. Not in a million years. The law had no say. The way it should be. Yes I think we do need to judge a book by its cover to a degree...people can call me racist or whatever. If a person looks like they are in a gang, can't wear a ball cap right lol, saggy pants...ok so I'm an old man on the inside lol...you get my point. Its life man. You can't control other peoples actions.

 

[Lunyfringe]

I agree with everything you said, especially the last sentence.
I’m not infringing on anyone’s rights to own a gun, I’m just not willing to place one of MY guns in anyone’s hands who I have any doubts about whatsoever.

Fair enough, and I'm the same with my ID...

Enjoy your false security... OTOH, nothing good can come from me sharing my ID with someone I don't know (except maybe buying a gun that I can probably get somewhere else with more security?)

 

[jrbfishn]

Then you should never sell one. Problem solved.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Sam7sf]

Then you should never sell one. Problem solved.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I cry every time I sell.

 

[majormadmax]

Oh yeah, and MajorMax, peach or apple?

Apple. I'm an American, dammit!

 

[Lunyfringe]

I cry every time I sell.

Every time you sell a gun, a little piece of you dies.. not all of you, maybe just your liver.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I don't sell my guns, but if I did, I'd profile people I didn't know.
I'd ask to see their DL to verify that they had one, that is about all.

 

[Jigo23]

Also jigo, I was like you too and I agree no one should tell us how to handle our property. Its your property until you take the cash and shake hands. On the flip side I don't need someone's private info...I'm not an agency that can protect that. Its a double edged sword. Texas has no laws to get you in trouble if someone commits a crime if a 4473 is traced back to you. You will probably get a knock on the door but nothing will happen.

Oh I could care less about a knock on my door or “getting in trouble” with the law. What I couldn’t live with is a gun I provided someone being used negligently or unlawfully to harm an innocent person, especially a child. When I have sold guns to new shooters, I meet them at a range and teach them how to safely handle, shoot, disassemble, clean, reassemble the gun before I turn it over to them. At least then I know they were taught the correct way, what happens after that is on them.
Again...folks can choose to handle transferring their guns the way they see fit and proper as I will continue to do.