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  • C_Hallbert

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    While factually correct, 6 years and an ARCOM as the highest decoration awarded is average for an O-3.

    I’m guessing the guy has a leafeater record on Active Duty. I could be wrong, but I’ll bet on he’s an average joe.

    Which brings me to what someone said earlier about ‘respect’ and ‘higher expectations’ for Special Agents and the FBI.

    The agency, like any other, is impacted by the Pareto principle. They can recruit the best and brightest, but that doesn’t mean jack when it comes to behavior.

    If you want your reputation as an agency to be above reproach, you recruit, hire, retain, and promote for integrity. Then, you ruthlessly weed out those who tarnish integrity.

    That is the selection method of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.


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    easy rider

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    Oh. A true accidental discharge instead of the negligent discharge.

    Maybe it was a Sig and that whole drop test thing.

    Or, it’s like a unicorn. Often talked about, yet mythical.
    The Sig has to hit just right and then it would have gone off on impact, clearly it went off as he picked it up, negligence.
     

    benenglish

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    If you want your reputation as an agency to be above reproach, you recruit, hire, retain, and promote for integrity. Then, you ruthlessly weed out those who tarnish integrity.
    I agree. My problem with that, however, is what happens afterwards.

    I've seen too many who couldn't cut it at the FBI who don't have the sense to leave law enforcement. Instead, they fail downwards to the Railroad Retirement Board (I mention the RRB too often but it was there that I encountered the single most incompetent federal LEO of my career; he was a failed FBI Special Agent.), the BATFE, and myriad small agencies.

    Nationwide, at all levels of government, I think there should be a basic background check on LEOs performance in previous jobs. Yes, I know that this technically exists; nobody gets hired on a no-questions-asked basis. But if you're too much of a screw-up to make it at one agency, you shouldn't be able to just transfer elsewhere without a serious re-evaluation. Instead, Federal agencies with problem Special Agents and Inspectors play "pass the trash" way the hell too much. Open investigations into misconduct get delayed long enough for SAs to find other jobs and then those investigations become moot and are never properly completed. I'm told local police departments have been known to do something similar.

    This disturbs me. I've seen Special Agents I know, good, competent men, killed because of this practice when the teams around them were not up to snuff and failed to do their jobs.

    And don't get me started on letting people retire. That's a personal pet peeve. One of our SAs was caught downloading mass quantities of child porn on an investigative workstation, one not connected to our network and therefore not subject to routine audit. The discovery was purely by accident. Instead of frog-marching the guy out of the building in handcuffs, they let him retire. Three days later he was arrested and our Public Information Officer could then dodge all the bad publicity by characterizing the whole thing as the actions of "an employee who worked here at sometime in the past."
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    Oh. A true accidental discharge instead of the negligent discharge.

    Maybe it was a Sig and that whole drop test thing.

    Or, it’s like a unicorn. Often talked about, yet mythical.

    This would mean it had a "delayed" AD as it went off well after it hit the ground.
    I suppose that the timing could have been "just right" that it went off as he was picking it up, but I highly doubt it, lol.


    ETA: this was a highly sarcastic post.
     

    easy rider

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    This would mean it had a "delayed" AD as it went off well after it hit the ground.
    I suppose that the timing could have been "just right" that it went off as he was picking it up, but I highly doubt it, lol.


    ETA: this was a highly sarcastic post.
    SIG HATER!


    :evil:
     

    gdr_11

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    For those of us old enough to remember who Efrem Zimbalist Jr. was, there was a time when FBI agents were the creme de la creme of law enforcement. Their elite selection process, training and discipline made them a cut above even though they used to look more like IBM salesmen than agents. About 1980 or so I can recall encountering agents who began to look and act different and by 2000 they were more concerned with meeting gender, race and sexual preference goals than maintaining any type of elite status. Friends of mine in other branches of LEO began to look at the FBI as the Hollywood arm of LEO and it has all gone downhill from there. Throw in fiascos like Waco (ATF screwup but FBI really did the pooch on that one), Ruby Ridge and other foul ups and we are left with a drunk agent shooting himself on the dance floor
     

    BRD@66

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    This would mean it had a "delayed" AD as it went off well after it hit the ground.
    I suppose that the timing could have been "just right" that it went off as he was picking it up, but I highly doubt it, lol.


    ETA: this was a highly sarcastic post.
    Ahh - you're talking about a "hang fire". I've dealt with them on a four deuce mortar but never on a Glock.
     

    benenglish

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    "hang fire"
    I once loaded 100 rounds of .44 Mag that were all hang fires. I don't know how I did it but every single one was "Click..wait two seconds..Boom!"

    That stuff was precious. I kept it around for years and years. Whenever I started flinching, I'd go shoot 5 cylinders of .44, each with one round from that batch. Incredibly useful training ammo.
     

    BRD@66

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    I once loaded 100 rounds of .44 Mag that were all hang fires. I don't know how I did it but every single one was "Click..wait two seconds..Boom!"

    That stuff was precious. I kept it around for years and years. Whenever I started flinching, I'd go shoot 5 cylinders of .44, each with one round from that batch. Incredibly useful training ammo.
    Your hang fire story makes me smile. Mine made me brown-out my fatigues.
     

    TheMailMan

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    For those of us old enough to remember who Efrem Zimbalist Jr. was, there was a time when FBI agents were the creme de la creme of law enforcement. Their elite selection process, training and discipline made them a cut above even though they used to look more like IBM salesmen than agents. About 1980 or so I can recall encountering agents who began to look and act different and by 2000 they were more concerned with meeting gender, race and sexual preference goals than maintaining any type of elite status. Friends of mine in other branches of LEO began to look at the FBI as the Hollywood arm of LEO and it has all gone downhill from there. Throw in fiascos like Waco (ATF screwup but FBI really did the pooch on that one), Ruby Ridge and other foul ups and we are left with a drunk agent shooting himself on the dance floor

    When the ONLY requirement is to have a college degree you've got problems. It used to be they wanted people with previous LEO experience.
     

    pronstar

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    When the ONLY requirement is to have a college degree you've got problems. It used to be they wanted people with previous LEO experience.

    I read an article stating that hiring practices also favor people with zero life experiences, versus well-rounded people who’ve actually lived a little (or a lot).

    That degree hanging on a wall tells us very little about who a person really is IMHO.



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    easy rider

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    I read an article stating that hiring practices also favor people with zero life experiences, versus well-rounded people who’ve actually lived a little (or a lot).

    That degree hanging on a wall tells us very little about who a person really is IMHO.



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    Interesting point and I'm going to go off topic a bit. Here's a scary thought, under Obama they changed the Air Traffic Controllers hiring criteria. If you ever worked for the government you probably know they go by a point system in hiring. To ensure diversity they changed many questions on the application. Higher points are given to someone with no background in aviation. They ask a question like: "which subject gave you the hardest time in school", if you answer 'science' you will get the highest points. Another one is, you will get highest points if you hadn't worked in the past three years.
    Hearing that gave me the warm and fuzzys all over.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    At one point in the past the degree had to be a law degree or in accounting. Basket weaving and art appreciation didn't count.

    That’s very far in the past. When I interviewed (and turned down the offer) The areas of study focused around law, accounting, technical, or one of several military areas of experience with any bachelor or higher degree.

    That was in 2006.
     

    easy rider

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    The government hiring process has always been a bit screwy, they award points for 'key words'. Keep in mind also that those that screen applications and award points don't have to have any background in the job that's being applied for, they just look for those key words and apply them to the score sheet. Therefore, all they need to do to change a criteria of hiring is to change those key words. My degree in the area of the job I was seeking had very little bearing on me getting hired.

    There are businesses in the areas of government installations that all they do is prepare resumes for government positions using those key words for various positions.
     

    majormadmax

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    It isn't that easy to become a Special Agent in the FBI, a person needs a minimum of a bachelor’s degree from a US-accredited college or university and at least three years of full-time professional work experience just to apply (the minimum age to do so is 23). The Special Agent Selection System (SASS) then identifies the best candidates to become FBI Special Agents. The process typically takes one year or longer to complete...

    Special_Agent_Selection_Process.png


    This info may be a bit dated, but here are the pass rates based on the above steps...

    Step 1) Pre screening: 70% of pre-applications are dismissed as non-competitive

    Step 2) Phase 1 Exam (written test 3 parts): 30% of applicant's fail.

    Step 3) Full Application: there really is no fail rate here, if you passed step 1 your still competitive. The only thing is now you will be ranked under the federal merit hiring system (i.e. points based on experiences) and interviewed in that order. Some folks never get the interview because a year has gone by before they get to you. If that happens you can request to be on the list for a second year, but it's not always granted, so technically a very small percent "fail" this step.

    Step 4) Phase 2 (interview and written exam): 50% fail this step.

    Step 5) Background check (this is a series of small steps: poly, medical check, credit history, 1.5 mile run, drug test): about 50% fail this step.

    Overall the chances of making it past this process are around 5-7% of the total applicants, who then have to complete the academy.

    And no, they are not recruiting those with LEO backgrounds as much as they once did. The FBI primarily investigates "white collar" crimes, thus are looking for cyber expertise, accounting and other such skills more so than Special Agents.

    I have more details from when I went through the FBI Citizen Academy back in 2012, but the above info is fairly accurate from what I remember being briefed...

    Cheers! M2
     

    easy rider

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    I can't say if the FBI criteria has changed, but the Obama administration had changed much of the criteria in many areas of the government, especially in his final years.
     

    pronstar

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    The government hiring process has always been a bit screwy, they award points for 'key words'. Keep in mind also that those that screen applications and award points don't have to have any background in the job that's being applied for, they just look for those key words and apply them to the score sheet. Therefore, all they need to do to change a criteria of hiring is to change those key words. My degree in the area of the job I was seeking had very little bearing on me getting hired.

    There are businesses in the areas of government installations that all they do is prepare resumes for government positions using those key words for various positions.

    Increasingly, “they” (the people doing the screening) is really software called an ATS: Applicant Tracking System.

    Depending on the job and the number of applicants, resumes and applications go thru several rounds of ATS software before ever being seen by a human at all.

    There are ways to game an ATS:
    The easiest way is to look at the job posting, then copy keywords from it into your resume and/or application.

    Believe it or not, this practice is common and not discouraged at all. And it’s common the have many different versions of your resume, all tailored to that specific job you’re applying for.

    There are even websites that emulate an ATS - you copy/paste the job posting, and also your resume, and it will tell you your score.


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    TheMailMan

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    It isn't that easy to become a Special Agent in the FBI, a person needs a minimum of a bachelor’s degree from a US-accredited college or university and at least three years of full-time professional work experience just to apply (the minimum age to do so is 23). The Special Agent Selection System (SASS) then identifies the best candidates to become FBI Special Agents. The process typically takes one year or longer to complete...

    View attachment 140352

    This info may be a bit dated, but here are the pass rates based on the above steps...

    Step 1) Pre screening: 70% of pre-applications are dismissed as non-competitive

    Step 2) Phase 1 Exam (written test 3 parts): 30% of applicant's fail.

    Step 3) Full Application: there really is no fail rate here, if you passed step 1 your still competitive. The only thing is now you will be ranked under the federal merit hiring system (i.e. points based on experiences) and interviewed in that order. Some folks never get the interview because a year has gone by before they get to you. If that happens you can request to be on the list for a second year, but it's not always granted, so technically a very small percent "fail" this step.

    Step 4) Phase 2 (interview and written exam): 50% fail this step.

    Step 5) Background check (this is a series of small steps: poly, medical check, credit history, 1.5 mile run, drug test): about 50% fail this step.

    Overall the chances of making it past this process are around 5-7% of the total applicants, who then have to complete the academy.

    And no, they are not recruiting those with LEO backgrounds as much as they once did. The FBI primarily investigates "white collar" crimes, thus are looking for cyber expertise, accounting and other such skills more so than Special Agents.

    I have more details from when I went through the FBI Citizen Academy back in 2012, but the above info is fairly accurate from what I remember being briefed...

    Cheers! M2

    You forgot that if they need to hire 4'2" one legged transvestite Eskimo's that those who meet those criteria go to the head of the line.
     
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