SloppyShooter
Certifiable
I'm a Poboy, hot water heater off the curb.....need I say more? Best safe ever.
Looking for a quality Gun Safe
- Thread starter TexasEric
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Why would you need to heat Hot water?
SloppyShooter
Certifiable
Thanks for the IDIOT response.
Funny, we are talking about this and TreyG sold his last night in 15 minutes for 350.
Buy as big as you can. Make SURE where you want to put it BEFORE you buy it. This is not a secondary thought issue.
My son and I got ours at Tractor supply. Go get it on Black Friday. They have about 6-8 in the stores and its a medium sized for like 350. Great deal.
EDIT: if you do the black friday thing be warned. I went one year and my son went the next and both times we went at 6am and they were already loading one and somebody already buying another so they go QUICK.
Buy as big as you can. Make SURE where you want to put it BEFORE you buy it. This is not a secondary thought issue.
My son and I got ours at Tractor supply. Go get it on Black Friday. They have about 6-8 in the stores and its a medium sized for like 350. Great deal.
EDIT: if you do the black friday thing be warned. I went one year and my son went the next and both times we went at 6am and they were already loading one and somebody already buying another so they go QUICK.
SloppyShooter
Certifiable
I guess I have to explain it to you idiots. You take an old hot water heater and turn it into a place thrives walk by.
I'd explain it you, but, I don't feel like going over it 3 times
EDUCATE YOURSELF.
its not a big deal to do you can find youtube how to's on it. I opened the back of the safe door to find the name/brand of the tumblers and used that to search out the parts on ebay.
Now I don't know how new safes are but I would bet its all about the same. It also seems digital and dial locks can be swapped out in a lot of cases.
Now I don't know how new safes are but I would bet its all about the same. It also seems digital and dial locks can be swapped out in a lot of cases.
Ole Cowboy
TGT Addict
http://lonestargunsafes.com
Know several folks that looked and bought more than one... http://lonestargunsafes.com
Know several folks that looked and bought more than one... http://lonestargunsafes.com
I have one of the older Winchesters. 1/4" steel door and walls. Weighs over 600 lbs empty. Dial S&G lock. If you can find one they are great. I couldn't find one when I needed another safe (Go BIG first time). I looked at the Champions at Tractor Supply with the Digital lock and did a little research. There are hundreds of complaints about the non-warranty that Champion has. If the Digital lock quits, not uncommon, a locksmith has to drill the safe to get it open. I did some more looking and found a Stack-On Elite 34 gun for the money I wanted to spend. It had the digital lock but behind it was a keyhole. The key looked like an old 7" jail door key with a bunch more cuts and is for emergency access. It was heavy ~500 lbs but most of that was concrete. It did have 11ga walls and door. That's #2. I found the digital lock is great, easy to use, just make sure there is a backup key.
On securing it. I figured the weight would be a big factor until a salesperson (owned a gun shop) pointed out the largest safe she had (Huge browning) could be moved by 3 guys with a handful of golf balls. Hmmmm. If you know where it's going , on a concrete floor, and there is absolutely no plan to move it. A tube of silicone sealer painted around under it will hold it in place. Think jackhammer to move. Or the old standby of bolts in the floor.
Just don't put it in the garage next to your oxy-acetylene rig.
I apologize for my attempt at humor regarding your Hot water heater post. Thank you for trying to educate my ignorant @##.
I copied this from rimfirecentral. I don't know the guy. Just felt it might help.
Fella's;
I'm now retired, but I was a professional locksmith and specialized in safe sales. What follows is my take on gun storage containers. Please feel free to PM me with questions.
There is a great dividing line in the home safe industry. On one side lies what the mass marketers call a safe, which U.L. calls an RSC. On the other are the true safes. RSC is an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating for Residential Security Containers. It’s their polite way of saying “tin box”. There is no national construction standard for protective containers. I could scotch tape six of my business cards together, put a pin across a corner & sell it to the public as a “safe” if I cared to do so. My business card “safe” would be an unrated unit. There are many unrated units on the market and they fill a need for a low-cost metal cabinet that locks. However, they should not be thought of as secure. A motivated ten year old could possibly compromise one.
A step up from no rating is the U.L. RSC rating, it stands for Residential Security Container, note: container, not safe. That rating certifies that one individual cannot forcibly enter the test container by using common hand tools for a five minute period. Common hand tools are meant to be a hammer and a heavy screwdriver, no lever length to exceed 18 inches. When you stop & think about it, you shouldn’t feel good relying on the level of construction that produces the RSC rating. However, it must also be said that there are RSC’s and RSC’s. In other words, some units meet the standard and no more, other units do offer better protection than the minimum standard. The difference will almost certainly be reflected in the price, but don’t rely on the price to be the determinant. Believe it or not, there are marketing departments that will price their Superwow Diamond grade RSC right up there with one that does offer protection well above the minimum. The problem being that the Superwow Diamond is functionally little better than a tin box, but not much.
Fella's;
I'm now retired, but I was a professional locksmith and specialized in safe sales. What follows is my take on gun storage containers. Please feel free to PM me with questions.
There is a great dividing line in the home safe industry. On one side lies what the mass marketers call a safe, which U.L. calls an RSC. On the other are the true safes. RSC is an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating for Residential Security Containers. It’s their polite way of saying “tin box”. There is no national construction standard for protective containers. I could scotch tape six of my business cards together, put a pin across a corner & sell it to the public as a “safe” if I cared to do so. My business card “safe” would be an unrated unit. There are many unrated units on the market and they fill a need for a low-cost metal cabinet that locks. However, they should not be thought of as secure. A motivated ten year old could possibly compromise one.
A step up from no rating is the U.L. RSC rating, it stands for Residential Security Container, note: container, not safe. That rating certifies that one individual cannot forcibly enter the test container by using common hand tools for a five minute period. Common hand tools are meant to be a hammer and a heavy screwdriver, no lever length to exceed 18 inches. When you stop & think about it, you shouldn’t feel good relying on the level of construction that produces the RSC rating. However, it must also be said that there are RSC’s and RSC’s. In other words, some units meet the standard and no more, other units do offer better protection than the minimum standard. The difference will almost certainly be reflected in the price, but don’t rely on the price to be the determinant. Believe it or not, there are marketing departments that will price their Superwow Diamond grade RSC right up there with one that does offer protection well above the minimum. The problem being that the Superwow Diamond is functionally little better than a tin box, but not much.
The next step up is a B level safe. To be rated as a safe by U.L., all six sides have to be ¼” steel plate as a minimum. A U.L. group II lock must also be used. In all quality B level safes, the door is ½” plate. Beyond that are C level safes, and the single construction criteria that must be met is that the thickness of the steel is doubled. Beyond the C, there are E, and F ratings. There is also another rating system that rates TL15, TL30, TL30X6, TLTR15, etc. That rating system, however, is not directly comparable with the B, C, etc. rating system. I’d be glad to explain the TL specs if someone needs to know, but the information is readily available on the net.
I know of only three manufacturers that are producing true safes for the home market. They are: AMSEC, Brown, and Graffunder. I used to sell AMSEC and Graffunder. All the others; Liberty, Fort Knox, Champion, Browning, Heritage, etc, etc, are invariably RSC’s.
Typical construction of an RSC involves using gauge sheet metal to form the body of the container. The door may, or may not, contain plate steel. If the body is made of sheet metal, frequently the frame that the door bolts lock up behind, is nothing more than that sheet metal folded three or four times. We all know what folding sheet metal does to it’s strength, and it isn’t a good thing. If you want to see a graphic example of the worth of an RSC with this type of frame go to Youtube and bring up the short video “Security On Sale”. True safes use plate steel frames.
Many RSC’s offer what seems to be impressive fire protection. Omega Laboratories, the BTU test, and Pyro 3000 ratings, tests in furnaces with a public audience, and so forth. The only fire certification worth paying attention to is the U.L. 1 hour or above. The Great Falls Fire Department tells me that a typical severe home fire can hit temperature’s of 1600 degrees f to above 2000 f, depending on the fuel source(s) and conditions. The U.L. test requires the safe to be placed in the furnace, the gas lit, and the temperature to be brought up to 1700 f, before the 1 hour timer starts. At the end of the hour, the internal transponder is read, and anything that passes is going to read in the 270 – 280 f, range. Cap is 350 f, on any meaningful test. However, the end of the hour is not the end of the U.L. test. At the end of the hour, the gas is shut off, but the safe remains in the sealed furnace until the furnace temperature drops to laboratory ambient, 68 f. At no time during the entire ramp-up, burn, or cool-down cycle can the internal temperature of the test container exceed 350 f. And that’s what it takes for the contents of a safe to survive a totally involved, burn it to the ground, house fire. Just ask the folks in the San Diego area if that can’t happen.
I know of only three manufacturers that are producing true safes for the home market. They are: AMSEC, Brown, and Graffunder. I used to sell AMSEC and Graffunder. All the others; Liberty, Fort Knox, Champion, Browning, Heritage, etc, etc, are invariably RSC’s.
Typical construction of an RSC involves using gauge sheet metal to form the body of the container. The door may, or may not, contain plate steel. If the body is made of sheet metal, frequently the frame that the door bolts lock up behind, is nothing more than that sheet metal folded three or four times. We all know what folding sheet metal does to it’s strength, and it isn’t a good thing. If you want to see a graphic example of the worth of an RSC with this type of frame go to Youtube and bring up the short video “Security On Sale”. True safes use plate steel frames.
Many RSC’s offer what seems to be impressive fire protection. Omega Laboratories, the BTU test, and Pyro 3000 ratings, tests in furnaces with a public audience, and so forth. The only fire certification worth paying attention to is the U.L. 1 hour or above. The Great Falls Fire Department tells me that a typical severe home fire can hit temperature’s of 1600 degrees f to above 2000 f, depending on the fuel source(s) and conditions. The U.L. test requires the safe to be placed in the furnace, the gas lit, and the temperature to be brought up to 1700 f, before the 1 hour timer starts. At the end of the hour, the internal transponder is read, and anything that passes is going to read in the 270 – 280 f, range. Cap is 350 f, on any meaningful test. However, the end of the hour is not the end of the U.L. test. At the end of the hour, the gas is shut off, but the safe remains in the sealed furnace until the furnace temperature drops to laboratory ambient, 68 f. At no time during the entire ramp-up, burn, or cool-down cycle can the internal temperature of the test container exceed 350 f. And that’s what it takes for the contents of a safe to survive a totally involved, burn it to the ground, house fire. Just ask the folks in the San Diego area if that can’t happen.
Speaking of which, where’s the pictures from the RSC makers of the contents of their “safes” that went through the San Diego fires of 2007? There were many million plus dollar homes that burned. You know that there were home safes involved. Quite the advertising coup if you can show pictures of a “MasterIron” safe’s unharmed contents & the house is a total ruin. I have pictures, provided by a line I sold, proving that it’s not an impossible task to accomplish. But, in those instances, the container was a true safe, not an RSC.
Thermal protection is not rocket science. If you put thicker and denser material between the heat source and the contents to be protected, you will get better protection. True safes weigh significantly more than RSC’s, and for good reason. They use plate steel for the body. They frequently use some sort of concrete mixture for the insulation. Juxtapose that against the sheet metal exterior skin and layers of sheet rock frequently used by RSC makers. Take the paper off the insulation & call it “fire rock”, it’s gypsum wallboard by any name. Sheet rock is a good flame barrier, but it’s not dense enough to be a good heat sink. If you put enough layers of it together to get a decent thermal rating, you’ve seriously shrunk the interior volume of the container. You can’t win. Beware other advertising claims that rate the insulation, but don’t give you a time/temp specification, as does U.L., for the test procedure. You can’t make a meaningful comparison of fire ratings until and unless you know the exact test procedures for all cases being compared. Funny thing, it’s very hard to get those test procedures from anybody but Underwriter’s Laboratories.
Many a “safe” salesman will tell you that the 1200 f/30 minute rating of their wonderbox is just fine, as the average home fire is 1200 degrees f. The kicker word is average. Included are the greasy rag fire in the garage, or the little ‘put the lid on it’ grease fire in the kitchen. But when you get a serious fire, you can get well above 1200 degrees f. Forget that at your own risk.
Thermal protection is not rocket science. If you put thicker and denser material between the heat source and the contents to be protected, you will get better protection. True safes weigh significantly more than RSC’s, and for good reason. They use plate steel for the body. They frequently use some sort of concrete mixture for the insulation. Juxtapose that against the sheet metal exterior skin and layers of sheet rock frequently used by RSC makers. Take the paper off the insulation & call it “fire rock”, it’s gypsum wallboard by any name. Sheet rock is a good flame barrier, but it’s not dense enough to be a good heat sink. If you put enough layers of it together to get a decent thermal rating, you’ve seriously shrunk the interior volume of the container. You can’t win. Beware other advertising claims that rate the insulation, but don’t give you a time/temp specification, as does U.L., for the test procedure. You can’t make a meaningful comparison of fire ratings until and unless you know the exact test procedures for all cases being compared. Funny thing, it’s very hard to get those test procedures from anybody but Underwriter’s Laboratories.
Many a “safe” salesman will tell you that the 1200 f/30 minute rating of their wonderbox is just fine, as the average home fire is 1200 degrees f. The kicker word is average. Included are the greasy rag fire in the garage, or the little ‘put the lid on it’ grease fire in the kitchen. But when you get a serious fire, you can get well above 1200 degrees f. Forget that at your own risk.
If you do a thorough examination of the typical RSC, it’s quite likely you’ll find a rubber plug in the top, or the base. Production line RSC’s frequently compromise their structural integrity & put that hole in the unit so it can easily be hung from a hook as it goes down the assembly line. And if the hole’s in the base, it may not be plugged. The honest-to-steel safe may also have a hole, but it’ll be in the floor plate. It’s there so the unit can be bolted to the structure it’s in. In virtually all U.L. rated safes, that hole will be sealed by a solid steel plug. Therefore, if the owner does not want to bolt it down, the integrity is not compromised.
Hinges: Interior hinges are not, repeat NOT, a good thing. Avoid them like the plague. Interior hinges are found in RSC’s. The body of an RSC is made of formed sheet metal. Usually 10 to 16 gauge sheet metal. Distort that tin box & the hinges don’t line up correctly anymore. When the hinges don’t line up correctly, the owner of the unit is not, repeat NOT, happy. You cannot pay me enough to share your pain. I will not fix that problem, and I will tell you; “You should have done your research before you bought that thing”.
Then there’s the issue of capacity. Always, if at all possible, buy the biggest unit you can afford. It’s much less expensive in the long run to buy one safe, rather than either buying a second safe, or selling & buying larger. I know this from personal experience. Then there’s the slot count. Never count on getting one gun in every slot – ain’t gonna happen. As a rule of thumb, don’t expect to get more than 75 to 80 percent usage of slots. In other words, if you buy a unit with 36 slots for guns, you’re actually only going to get around 27 to 28 guns stored in them. That’s assuming that desperate measures haven’t been taken; things like storing every other gun muzzle down, things like that. Then there’s the folk who have gutted their safe, and just put each gun in a sock & stack ‘em in there willy-nilly. It, sorta, works, but it’s a mess to observe and a worse one to get the gun out you want.
If you can, realistically project your needs and buy accordingly. That most particularly includes the interior layout. Convertible interiors work well, they allow the gun storage capacity to grow along with the size of your collection. On the other hand, that also means that the other-than-gun stuff has to find a new home. Always choose a light color for the interior. Safes are caves, they suck light in and don’t return it. Light colored cloth can really help visibility in the interior. On the same note, if you need lights in the interior, you’re accepting a hole in the safe to run the wire through. Which means you’re compromising the security and fire protection. If you do run wire, seal the hole with high-temp RTV goo, it really does help.
Safes cost more money than RSC’s. However, the subject of home safes certainly seems to be an excellent example of the rule of 80/20. A high-end RSC will cost about 80% as much as a true safe. It will give about 20% of the protection. It’s a shame I can’t mention brand names without the possibility of vengeful corporate lawyers. But do know this, a decal of an elk in the morning doesn’t add a thing to the protective ability of the unit in question. Believe me, there are a couple of real triumph’s of advertising over substance out there.
Hinges: Interior hinges are not, repeat NOT, a good thing. Avoid them like the plague. Interior hinges are found in RSC’s. The body of an RSC is made of formed sheet metal. Usually 10 to 16 gauge sheet metal. Distort that tin box & the hinges don’t line up correctly anymore. When the hinges don’t line up correctly, the owner of the unit is not, repeat NOT, happy. You cannot pay me enough to share your pain. I will not fix that problem, and I will tell you; “You should have done your research before you bought that thing”.
Then there’s the issue of capacity. Always, if at all possible, buy the biggest unit you can afford. It’s much less expensive in the long run to buy one safe, rather than either buying a second safe, or selling & buying larger. I know this from personal experience. Then there’s the slot count. Never count on getting one gun in every slot – ain’t gonna happen. As a rule of thumb, don’t expect to get more than 75 to 80 percent usage of slots. In other words, if you buy a unit with 36 slots for guns, you’re actually only going to get around 27 to 28 guns stored in them. That’s assuming that desperate measures haven’t been taken; things like storing every other gun muzzle down, things like that. Then there’s the folk who have gutted their safe, and just put each gun in a sock & stack ‘em in there willy-nilly. It, sorta, works, but it’s a mess to observe and a worse one to get the gun out you want.
If you can, realistically project your needs and buy accordingly. That most particularly includes the interior layout. Convertible interiors work well, they allow the gun storage capacity to grow along with the size of your collection. On the other hand, that also means that the other-than-gun stuff has to find a new home. Always choose a light color for the interior. Safes are caves, they suck light in and don’t return it. Light colored cloth can really help visibility in the interior. On the same note, if you need lights in the interior, you’re accepting a hole in the safe to run the wire through. Which means you’re compromising the security and fire protection. If you do run wire, seal the hole with high-temp RTV goo, it really does help.
Safes cost more money than RSC’s. However, the subject of home safes certainly seems to be an excellent example of the rule of 80/20. A high-end RSC will cost about 80% as much as a true safe. It will give about 20% of the protection. It’s a shame I can’t mention brand names without the possibility of vengeful corporate lawyers. But do know this, a decal of an elk in the morning doesn’t add a thing to the protective ability of the unit in question. Believe me, there are a couple of real triumph’s of advertising over substance out there.
SloppyShooter
Certifiable
You make it LOOK like it's hooked up, and you don't put it next to your real hot water heater.
Lemme hand these out: Doh Doh Doh Doh Doh Doh double Doh!
If someone sees two water heaters, they may start looking at one of them to see why. Especially if this is the type of break in where someone has the time to get into something like a gun safe. It is a decent idea, but you come across as a pretentious douchebag so thats why people are giving you so much crap
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