DK Firearms

So, you have an AR for home defense, SHTF - what ammo?

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  • Lunyfringe

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    In the article "...as the target moves away,..." If the target is moving away then shooting may not be necessary. It is difficult to shoot someone in the back and then claim self defense. My concern is with a jury that looks at the AR as an Assault Weapon. We know it isn't, but juries do have bias built up from years of media influence. The question becomes why did you convert and build an assault rifle into a home defense weapon? I, like most of you, have a 1911A1, .357, 2 .380's and an AR-15 loaded in my house at all times. My story will always be that it was the closest at the time.
    Some of the appeal to moving out of Colorado where my "peers" could include legalized dope addicts who could be swayed by lawyers saying that someone who was in my house at 3am didn't know what was going on and deserved a chance to prove it (or kill me and my family in my own home).

    In East Texas, a jury of my peers would likely wonder if the perp deserved worse.
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    MTA

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    In the article "...as the target moves away,..." If the target is moving away then shooting may not be necessary. It is difficult to shoot someone in the back and then claim self defense. My concern is with a jury that looks at the AR as an Assault Weapon. We know it isn't, but juries do have bias built up from years of media influence. The question becomes why did you convert and build an assault rifle into a home defense weapon? I, like most of you, have a 1911A1, .357, 2 .380's and an AR-15 loaded in my house at all times. My story will always be that it was the closest at the time.

    I was under the impression in Texas that if someone was in your house illegally, they were fair game.

    So if they came in and were greeted by 1000 lumens, they turned to run and you shot them, it would be no different if they took the shots to the chest?

    Please someone clarify this if you can
     

    Inspector43

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    I was under the impression in Texas that if someone was in your house illegally, they were fair game.

    So if they came in and were greeted by 1000 lumens, they turned to run and you shot them, it would be no different if they took the shots to the chest?

    Please someone clarify this if you can
    I'd always thought that way. I hope someone has an answer.
     

    Inspector43

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    Some of the appeal to moving out of Colorado where my "peers" could include legalized dope addicts who could be swayed by lawyers saying that someone who was in my house at 3am didn't know what was going on and deserved a chance to prove it (or kill me and my family in my own home).

    In East Texas, a jury of my peers would likely wonder if the perp deserved worse.
    It would be nice to always get a jury of your peers.
     

    pronstar

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    oldag

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    Lunyfringe

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    Lots of generalizations going on here... not all 9mm rounds are created equal, and not all 5.56/.223 (or 300BO) rounds are either. There are FMJ, heavy rounds, light rounds, hollow points (various grades/construction), frangible rounds.

    There are a few issues that will remain, and be pertinent regardless of those variables:
    1) Rifle muzzle energy > pistol muzzle energy- unless you do something to sabotage the test (squib rounds?), a rifle/carbine will always be able to stop a threat better than pistol rounds.
    2) Any round that will not penetrate a few layers of drywall will not penetrate bad guys wearing leather jackets very well either. I get that you want to avoid hitting loved ones in other rooms, but not stopping the threat is also very dangerous in this scenario. You could look at armoring their rooms- there are companies that offer bullet proof drywall... but it's not cheap.
    3) Shotgun energy will vary greatly with load used, and has lots more variables (are pellets grouped tightly, still acting as a slug, or are they individual by the time they reach a target.), size of pellets, low recoil vs magnum loads, etc...
    4) Houses are different- layouts vary, construction varies, know your house, your target and what's behind it.
     

    pronstar

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    .223 will go through several walls, even though it tumbles. Can't recall the website that shows videos of tests. At that point, does it make much difference if 9 might go through one more layer of sheet rock?

    Not trying to be argumentative.

    Just throwing water on the “.223 rounds open you up to civil liability due to overpenetraion” comment (not yours)


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    FireInTheWire

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    How so? I wouldn't hesitate to use my AR pistol if necessary running a 168 grain bullet for self-protection. Not arguing, just asking for clarification.
    That was based on "over-penetration". I have read many posts stating that subs will "likely" penetrate more.
    Lots of generalizations going on here... not all 9mm rounds are created equal, and not all 5.56/.223 (or 300BO) rounds are either. There are FMJ, heavy rounds, light rounds, hollow points (various grades/construction), frangible rounds.

    There are a few issues that will remain, and be pertinent regardless of those variables:
    1) Rifle muzzle energy > pistol muzzle energy- unless you do something to sabotage the test (squib rounds?), a rifle/carbine will always be able to stop a threat better than pistol rounds.
    2) Any round that will not penetrate a few layers of drywall will not penetrate bad guys wearing leather jackets very well either. I get that you want to avoid hitting loved ones in other rooms, but not stopping the threat is also very dangerous in this scenario. You could look at armoring their rooms- there are companies that offer bullet proof drywall... but it's not cheap.
    3) Shotgun energy will vary greatly with load used, and has lots more variables (are pellets grouped tightly, still acting as a slug, or are they individual by the time they reach a target.), size of pellets, low recoil vs magnum loads, etc...
    4) Houses are different- layouts vary, construction varies, know your house, your target and what's behind it.
    This^^
     

    oldag

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    Not trying to be argumentative.

    Just throwing water on the “.223 rounds open you up to civil liability due to overpenetraion” comment (not yours)


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    Understand and agree with that. Heck, almost anything will penetrate through a couple of walls.
     

    FireInTheWire

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    How so? I wouldn't hesitate to use my AR pistol if necessary running a 168 grain bullet for self-protection. Not arguing, just asking for clarification. Or I can put subs in it that will certainly work inside the house.
    I read an article one time stating that 300 sub's over penetrate more than supers. But after farther research... they are about equal. Shoot what ya got seems best bet.
     

    Charlie

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    'Top of the hill, Kerr County!
    The 300BLK subs, as mentioned above, do not penetrate the same as the supersonics. None of those rounds tested were subsonic. Doesn't matter if it's a 300BLK or a .308 or a 7.62 X 39, etc. If it's a 30 cal bullet, the subsonics (lower velocity) will certainly NOT penetrate the same as the supersonics. Both rounds will obviously go through sheetrock, but so will a pellet gun. It's kinda' like saying a 22 short will penetrate like a .223, but it all depends on what you're trying to penetrate. Did they check the velocity of all the rounds tested after they went through the sheetrock? The only fact that I can draw from that testing is that a 30 caliber bullet will, in fact, go through two pieces of sheetrock appx. 3 1/2" apart.
    The subsonic ammo may be as dangerous as the supersonic ammo but that testing does not give us enough info to tell us how dangerous.
     
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    Charlie

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    I'm pretty sure mass come into play in the equation.
    Yes it does but velocity is what makes the difference as to it's ability to be dangerous. If everybody is lined up against the wall in the neighboring apartment (or room) and the tester shoots through the wall on the opposite side about a foot away, then yes either would be dangerous to whatever is up against that wall. But that doesn't make them "equally" dangerous.
     
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