45-70 life expectancy

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  • Pointman91

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    Sep 22, 2018
    63
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    Jacksonville Texas
    Running low on 45-70 ammo so about to load more. My standard load is 45 grs IMR 3031 powder under a 405 gr Laser Cast bullet. WLR primer and mixed cases . Not a Max load but still a thumper, velocity avg 1675 fps @ 60° f and plenty accurate with little leading.

    My question is when to retire cases. This will be loading four for the batch I'm working with pretty much are all needing a trim but primer pockets are still tight and can't see any other issues with them. Hate to retire them early but want to be safe also. Looking for advice. TIA.

    I'm not new to reloading, but mostly in the past have loaded handgun ammo and .223 & 308 .
    Texas SOT
     

    Pointman91

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    Sep 22, 2018
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    A little more info...
    gun used is a lever action Henry and I use a lee FCD to prevent bullet jump in the tube under recoil. Haven't seen any split case mouths yet but am thinking I need to learn to anneal.
     

    Pointman91

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    Sep 22, 2018
    63
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    A little more info...
    gun used is a lever action Henry and I use a lee FCD to prevent bullet jump in the tube under recoil. Haven't seen any split case mouths yet but am thinking I need to learn to anneal.
     

    TxStetson

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    May 9, 2013
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    The hotter you load the shorter the life expectancy of the case. I make some lightly loaded 350 grn rounds that I have loaded more than 10 times without any issues. I also didn’t need to trim the cases for the first 8 reloads either.
     

    sergeant69

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    Feb 6, 2016
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    ur probably not gonna like this but what is do with my 45-70 cases is what i did with my .38 spl cases back in the 70s, 80s and 90s. after a "few" hot to normal loadings, say 6-8 maybe, i used em for paper punching shooting w/ 3 (?) gr of BE under a 158 gr wadcutter till they split. just the necks, rarely did i get a split down the side. i load 32 gr rel 7 under my 350 and 405 gr gc casts in all my 45-70 loads now to simply things. a BFR, a marlin and a remlin. i got too much metal in my right shoulder to take much more recoil than that. when i get about 8-10 loadings i chuck em in a box to seperate em and load em up with trailboss, whatever fits under the base of the bullet w/out compressing the powder and let newbies shoot em. then slip in one a the others when they aren't lookin. and i don't trim em at all. too much work. i have a giraud for the other calibers though.
     

    robertc1024

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    Subscribed. I don't have a 45-70, but I've wondered the same thing about my .44 mag brass. On necked cartridges, you can run a dental tool or something down the case to see if the brass is going to separate by the base. The only time I've tossed brass was when the primers got loose. Happens quite frequently in my 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady brass. Having some bullets walk in my .44's though, I crimp the Hell out of them now. After a couple of loadings, I think the end of the case is getting pretty thin. Haven't annealed them yet.

    Where's fricking Moonpie? He can tell you what's up.
     

    sergeant69

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    Feb 6, 2016
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    Subscribed. I don't have a 45-70, but I've wondered the same thing about my .44 mag brass. On necked cartridges, you can run a dental tool or something down the case to see if the brass is going to separate by the base. The only time I've tossed brass was when the primers got loose. Happens quite frequently in my 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady brass. Having some bullets walk in my .44's though, I crimp the Hell out of them now. After a couple of loadings, I think the end of the case is getting pretty thin. Haven't annealed them yet.

    Where's fricking Moonpie? He can tell you what's up.
    little secret? the case tension is MUCH more important than crimp when preventing the bullets from jumping the crimp. too little and the case bulges. too little and the bullets move. play with it a little and don't even crimp and see what a diff it makes. get the case mouth flare out sure so that they feed into the cylinder easily but with the proper amount of case tension a med/hvy crimp is not needed.
     

    TheMailMan

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    Dec 3, 2015
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    Straight wall cases last far longer than bottle neck cases.

    Straight wall cases that use a roll crimp won't last as long as those that don't.

    Load them till they split.
     

    sergeant69

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    That's commitment. I always wanted one of those.
    yea well its my second. like a dummy i sold the first one years ago. then arthritis started flaring up believe me if time and pain matter its the only way to go. i can do a batch of 30-06 in no time then switch to 308 in minutes and another batch of 500 or so.
     

    Charley

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    Agree 100% with the straight wall cases lasting. Headspace controlled by either the rim or case mouth, no opportunity for the shoulder to blow forward. Every time it does, the brass has to come from somewhere That's why the head separation. Straight cases will simply split. Only 45/70 I load is for a Trapdoor replica, at Trapdoor pressure levels. Have cases I've loaded 15 times, at least.
     

    ireload2

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    Jan 8, 2018
    10
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    USA
    I got my first 45-70 rifle in 1972 and I have never owned a single factory loaded cartridge. I bought my first box of new WW brass back then.
    That brass has since been fired in nearly a dozen different rifles for a total number of firings somewhere between 30 and 40 reloads.
    In the 40 plus years all the cases have worn primer pockets. None of the primers are very tight anymore due to wear from primers being inserted and decapped so many times.
    Most of my loads are mild but I have used the Elmer Keith load of 55 grns of 3031 (not for trap doors or antiques) a few times. Four of the WW cases burned through or cracked the side walls about 3/4" down from the case mouth.
    These occured after around 20 reloads. I never annealed the cases until the 4th case cracked.
    Cause of cracking is my old FL die is way tighter than it needs to be. Later dies are larger and do not over work the cases in that area.

    The overly tight FL die made me curious about loading die internal dimensions. I bought a set of .001 increment gauge pins up to .500 diameter.
    I have checked a number of FL dies and there are a lot of variations. Most of the variations have to do with the length of the straight "neck" portion of the FL dies. All dies produced in the last 30 years seem to be ok. Avoid any made in 1980 or earlier. If in doubt pull the die apart and compare the length of the neck sections.
    Reddings tend to be short. RCBS and Lee are similar internally.
    If you only load short or shallow seated bullets any brand will work. If you load all bullet lengths RCBS might be a better choice.

    The brass lasts a long long time if
    A. You avoid high pressure loads
    B. Avoid excessively tight FL dies
    C.Anneal your brass about every 10 reloadings.
    D. Avoid large sloppy chambers found in poorly maintained antiques.
    I will say that the original box of brass is still used now and then for plinking ammo. I have another approximately 1000 45-70 cases that I also plink with plus another 500 or so that have been reformed to 40-65 Win. I don't really expect to wear out any more of these cases.

    My brass is about an even mix of WW and RP cases. Most of it was bought used from other reloaders about 15 to 20 years ago. I got rid of my Starline brass since I did not have much of it and it is so hard right out of the box. I am sure that Starline would be ok if annealed but it is too hard to use with cast bullets as is.
     
    Last edited:

    Pointman91

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    Sep 22, 2018
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    Jacksonville Texas
    thank you, thats good to know information. I'm just going ahead and keeping an eye on them , when I start seeing issues i'll scrap them all and buy 100 new cases to start over with.
     

    ireload2

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    Jan 8, 2018
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    Any issues you see will be slow to develop. Case failures are similar to revolvers and are not very dramatic. When cracks or burns through occur you have to look for them otherwise they may be so small that you may not spot them until FL sizing the cases.
    Most shooters will step on or crush more cases than they will ever wear out.
    Don't be afraid to buy once fired brass when found at good prices.

    thank you, thats good to know information. I'm just going ahead and keeping an eye on them , when I start seeing issues i'll scrap them all and buy 100 new cases to start over with.
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Jul 27, 2018
    408
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    Lewisville
    Running low on 45-70 ammo so about to load more. My standard load is 45 grs IMR 3031 powder under a 405 gr Laser Cast bullet. WLR primer and mixed cases . Not a Max load but still a thumper, velocity avg 1675 fps @ 60° f and plenty accurate with little leading.

    My question is when to retire cases. This will be loading four for the batch I'm working with pretty much are all needing a trim but primer pockets are still tight and can't see any other issues with them. Hate to retire them early but want to be safe also. Looking for advice. TIA.

    I'm not new to reloading, but mostly in the past have loaded handgun ammo and .223 & 308 .

    I use various loads with bullet grains from 300 and up. Lehigh defense rounds, hornady, raineief, berry. I use two different powders. All of my brass is Starline. I use a medium load. I could go hotter or lighter. I did load a few Lehigh Defense rounds hot and fire a few of those for testing. Then when i found the max load i was comfortable with i loaded about 50 rounds in fresh new starline brass. I am saving those rounds for use against wild animals im self defense. To expensive to use for target practice, and not really needed for hunting anything but maybe big game.

    The gun i use is a Marlin 1895 SBL with muzzle break.

    So far i am up to using the brass for 17 loadings. I anneal my 45-70 brass every other time though too. I have yet to need to trim any of my brass as well.

    I use Hornady Dies and AP press
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Jul 27, 2018
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    Lewisville
    thank you, thats good to know information. I'm just going ahead and keeping an eye on them , when I start seeing issues i'll scrap them all and buy 100 new cases to start over with.

    I buy my brass nee directly from starline. 500 45-79 cases are currently only $212 thats less the. 50 cents each.

    If i could find someone to go in with me on buying 20,000 of them we could get then for 23 cents each!
     

    Texasgrillchef

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    Jul 27, 2018
    408
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    Lewisville
    I do that more for preventivr measure. Some say you can go more reloadings then that between annealing. But i have an anealing machine so its not a major issue to anneal every other time.

    One fact is certain for cases of this size, is if you dont aneal you definitely wont get as many reloadings as if you do aneal your brass.

    Its not that hard or time consuming to aneal either.

    I checked with a buddy of mine and he aneals his 45-70 every 5th firing. He has starline brass he says he has loaded over 200 times. He also loads light and makes his own hardcast 350gr lead projectiles too.
     

    bigwheel

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    Oct 19, 2018
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    Fort Worth
    Which of God's Creatures are we trying to harvest? Read an internet article the other day thutty thutty has killed more moose than any gun on record. I think in Texas a .22 LR would top the charts for small white tail deer and humans. ..not to mention the biggest Kodiak bear ever killed in Canada prior to 56. The bloomin Limeys killed most of the Elephants in Africa with British .303s. Thats a good round by the way.
     

    sergeant69

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    Feb 6, 2016
    697
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    san marcos tx
    I do that more for preventivr measure. Some say you can go more reloadings then that between annealing. But i have an anealing machine so its not a major issue to anneal every other time.

    One fact is certain for cases of this size, is if you dont aneal you definitely wont get as many reloadings as if you do aneal your brass.

    Its not that hard or time consuming to aneal either.

    I checked with a buddy of mine and he aneals his 45-70 every 5th firing. He has starline brass he says he has loaded over 200 times. He also loads light and makes his own hardcast 350gr lead projectiles too.
    i am just now starting to consider annealing. mostly 308 and 06. i have read that holding the case neck/shoulder over a candle flame till it gets too hot to hold then dropping it on a wet rag is the most ghetto way to go that still works. thoughts?
     
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