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ROUND COUNT & WHAT SHOULD I LOOK OUT FOR IN A SEMI?

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  • LaVbRef

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    Hey guys,
    Starting to look for a good used pistol. What is the norm and what should I run away from when I hear it? Looking at 9mm Sigs & CZ based on what I've been reading. Throwing this out there and I'll be back later today. Thanks in advance
    Always learning........
    ARJ Defense ad
     

    kyletxria1911a1

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    I got my Springer used it had 2.500 in it if put another 15k in the pipe. Just changed out the springs. Clean repeat.
    Imho if it looks good no dremel marks,etc, buy it run it hot enjoy. Not like cars they were made to run hard.
    Some guy I know have a 100k in the pipe and it's a edc..
     

    grumper

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    I run away from Jennings, Raven, Jimenez, Hi Point.

    Should be pretty safe with Sig and CZ unless there's obvious signs of abuse. Rusted out parts, cracked slides or frames, bulged barrels etc...
     

    OLDVET

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    I am a 1911 guy. I have at least 16 currently. I have a Stainless Springfield "Loaded Target" in 45 ACP that has over 30K rounds down the pipe. Change the springs and the oil and one will last you a looooong time.
    I have six CZ's. I prefer the P-10c, but the P-07 is a close second. I have a FDE Sig 320. It is okay, but it sits a little high in my hand.

    I highly recommend you go to a gun store and fondle a few so you can find something that feels good in your hand. Then go to a range that has guns to rent. Try out what you like. If it don't fit your hand, you will never enjoy shooting it.
    Plus it will keep you from ending up like me. My pistol collection amounts to about 30 items. How many do I still shoot, maybe 5 or 6.
     

    Byrd666

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    Do you have an idea of what you want? Not what the yahoo behind the counter says you need. Is it for E.D.C.? Is it a truck gun, or a range toy? Is it strictly for a nightstand/home defense gun? As with everything, new or used, every item has a purpose.

    Generally speaking, Sig, CZ, Glock, Springfield, S&W and most Ruger hold up well. Some lemons in every barrel, of course. Take a look for obvious signs of abuse and home done gunsmithing. As stated before, dremel marks where there shouldn't be any, cuts or cracks in the slide or frame that shouldn't be there, missing or obvious loose pieces parts that ain't supposed to be. Check the fit of parts as best you can, and if possible, do a basic field strip to get a look inside and at the barrel. While springs and sights are important, they can be changed out relatively quickly and inexpensively, depending.

    As for round count, that's debatable. I've talked to folks and heard of guns that'll go 100k+ rounds before finally being put out to pasture. I've also heard of the same thing happening to 'em with less than 1k rounds. I had a Stoeger of the latter variety once (and never again will I buy another firearm from that company), and I've got a Glock that will most likely outlive me. Sure, the springs will eventually wear out, but as said above, that's little stuff. And quite often you can feel things like that before they fail on you at the worst time. And like an oil change on the truck, that's preventative maintenance.

    So, in essence, stick with the major brands, find what you want, look it over as best you can, and if it fits you, run with it.
     

    kyletxria1911a1

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    Do you have an idea of what you want? Not what the yahoo behind the counter says you need. Is it for E.D.C.? Is it a truck gun, or a range toy? Is it strictly for a nightstand/home defense gun? As with everything, new or used, every item has a purpose.

    Generally speaking, Sig, CZ, Glock, Springfield, S&W and most Ruger hold up well. Some lemons in every barrel, of course. Take a look for obvious signs of abuse and home done gunsmithing. As stated before, dremel marks where there shouldn't be any, cuts or cracks in the slide or frame that shouldn't be there, missing or obvious loose pieces parts that ain't supposed to be. Check the fit of parts as best you can, and if possible, do a basic field strip to get a look inside and at the barrel. While springs and sights are important, they can be changed out relatively quickly and inexpensively, depending.

    As for round count, that's debatable. I've talked to folks and heard of guns that'll go 100k+ rounds before finally being put out to pasture. I've also heard of the same thing happening to 'em with less than 1k rounds. I had a Stoeger of the latter variety once (and never again will I buy another firearm from that company), and I've got a Glock that will most likely outlive me. Sure, the springs will eventually wear out, but as said above, that's little stuff. And quite often you can feel things like that before they fail on you at the worst time. And like an oil change on the truck, that's preventative maintenance.

    So, in essence, stick with the major brands, find what you want, look it over as best you can, and if it fits you, run with it.
    But as long as frame is good you can change bbl's and rebuild it and keep ok keeping on right?
     

    Byrd666

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    In the early eighties when my unit was at the range for training, I noticed a crack on the 1911 I had been issued and was cleaning. When I took back up to the cage to return and report it, the Petty Officer told me with a wink and a smirk that it wasn't that old. Only a Vietnam issue sidearm. With the wear and tear it had, I'm thinking it was a lot more like WWI issue. No telling how many thousands, or millions of rounds had been fired through it.

    Just keep replacing parts until it cain't be fixed no mo
     
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    Kar98

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    ...and I've got a Glock that will most likely outlive me. Sure, the springs will eventually wear out, but as said above, that's little stuff.

    Indeed. I've got a 1942 Walther P.38 that I can absolutely guarantee you will be good for another 75 years at least. Round count? Who knows? Also, I have no idea how people keep track of how many rounds they've fired through their guns. I pack up my guns and accessories, on the way to the range the range bag weighs a ton and on the way back home I can almost lift it easily with one hand.

    The only gun I've ever had that was worn out was a Mauser C-96 from around 1920. That one rattled like a baby rattle when you shook it, the bore was smooth and free of any rifling, it was all mixed and matched parts, the finish was gone, it had been refinished at some time and THAT finish was gone. Eventually traded it for a Walther PPK that's 50 years newer.
     

    kyletxria1911a1

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    Indeed. I've got a 1942 Walther P.38 that I can absolutely guarantee you will be good for another 75 years at least. Round count? Who knows? Also, I have no idea how people keep track of how many rounds they've fired through their guns. I pack up my guns and accessories, on the way to the range the range bag weighs a ton and on the way back home I can almost lift it easily with one hand.

    The only gun I've ever had that was worn out was a Mauser C-96 from around 1920. That one rattled like a baby rattle when you shook it, the bore was smooth and free of any rifling, it was all mixed and matched parts, the finish was gone, it had been refinished at some time and THAT finish was gone. Eventually traded it for a Walther PPK that's 50 years newer.
    See my sig line
    Ir it rattles take it to battle. My Springer is 20+ yrs. My edc.. my motto is run it till the wheels fall off.
    Inspect replace repeat....
     

    LaVbRef

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    Hey guys,
    Starting to look for a good used pistol. What is the norm and what should I run away from when I hear it? Looking at 9mm Sigs & CZ based on what I've been reading. Throwing this out there and I'll be back later today. Thanks in advance
    Always learning........

    I know enough to notice and eliminate the obvious stuff like rusted, cracked frames, broken and missing parts but almost every weapon for sale mentions "how many rounds through the barrel" as a major selling point so I was wondering whether there was something I should be looking at when I have the gun in hand.

    Planning on the two brands I mentioned right now (Sig &/or CZ) and plan to go to a local range where I can handle & rent to get a better feel for what I like. Will not be a CCW at this time though I will hold it. Planning on using it as a nightstand/home defense weapon though who knows what the future will hold. May eventually end up as my concealed carry gun.

    Thanks everyone.
     

    claymore504

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    I dont think round count is as important as abuse. A handgun can have 10,000 rounds through it and if it was taken care of it will be good to go. Then you could have a handgun with 1,000 and treated like garbage.
     

    OLDVET

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    Barrel life true story:
    I had to return one of my Springfield 1911s to the factory for service awhile back. While it was there I asked the service manager about barrel life, since the 1911 I had returned had over 30k rounds through it. He told me that with the improved metallurgy begin used today, a good (one piece) 1911 barrel should hold up for 50k rounds of lead ammo and 30k rounds of jacketed ammo. Assuming a person is not shooting speed demon loads.
    He also said that once a barrel starts to degrade after the 30k to 50k rounds, a normal shooter would not notice the difference. The 1911 is built for the long haul.

    A good home defense semi from CZ would be the CZ 75 P-01. It has a steel slide with an aluminum frame, rubber grip panels, and it shoots very nicely. I have two. That is, I have one, the wife took the second.
    The P-01 has"night sights" from the factory, but the sight must be activated by light prior to shining in the dark. Several companies make replacement tritium sights for the P-01.

    Another all around semi is the P-07. It has a steel slide and polymer frame, so the weight is less. A consideration if you decide to carry it. Both of mine are very accurate and recoil is not an issue.
    Both of my P-07s have factory tritium sights. The dots are a little large for my taste, but are easy to see in the dark.
    CZ pistols are very popular currently. I recommend you shop around on the web until you find a good deal.
    I rarely buy used firearms. With a little effort, I can usually find a new pistol for about the same price as some dude or LGS is asking for theirs.
    With a new gun I know its history, plus I get a warranty if anything goes wrong.
    Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase.
     

    deemus

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    It should be noted that many gun manufacturers now are great about warranty work. So if you buy a used gun, and something bad is wrong with it, the maker MAY fix it for you.

    I bought a box of "stuff" from an estate sale a few years ago.

    In that bunch of rusty crap was a Ruger Blackhawk that had a cylinder blown in half. I contacted them about it and they sent me a brand new one. Not the cylinder, but a brand new pistola.
     
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    CyberWolf

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    I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that round-count as relates to barrel life is really only a concern when it comes to rifle barrels, and from a practical perspective, even then will in most cases only be an issue for certain types of HP/Magnum barrels & materials (e.g. stainless match barrels vs. coated/lined, etc.). IMHO, bigger concern on a used bbl in most cases would be potential for dinged-up chamber, crown, etc.
     
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    Dawico

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    Most guns are shot very little. The average owner probably shoots less than a box of ammo a year.

    If a gun is just plain wore out it will be obvious. Most shooters don't sell guns they like to shoot.

    The odds are highly in your favor.
     

    Darkpriest667

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    Most guns are shot very little. The average owner probably shoots less than a box of ammo a year.

    If a gun is just plain wore out it will be obvious. Most shooters don't sell guns they like to shoot.

    The odds are highly in your favor.


    Dawico is right, most people that own guns take them out MAYBE once a year and put a box of ammo through it. They're not like some of us that shoot monthly or weekly.. I had a Glock 43 I sold earlier this year that I put 10k rounds through and the barrel was as good as the day I bought it and I bought it USED. That being said, always inspect the barrel when you buy a gun. If for nothing else than for pitting.
     

    OLDVET

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    Friends, there are "a lot" of people that shoot "a lot" of ammo monthly. There are thousands of competition shooters out there that go through 30K to 40K rounds a year. Maybe more.
    I enjoy shooting. Several of the guys I work with do as well. We try to make it to the range at least once a month, weather permitting. We each shoot an average of 200 rounds per trip. Reloading is a necessity for me.
    I agree that the majority of the gun population own a gun but rarely use it.
    Others like me and my friends use them regularly.
    The main thing is to not abuse them. Keep them clean and well lubricated and they will last longer than you. Someone in your family will get them when you are gone.
    Again, according to the pros at Springfield, all barrels wear. Jacketed ammo is harder than lead ammo on a barrel's lands and grooves.
    An original military issue Colt 1911 would produce 5" five shot groups at ten yards brand new.
    My Springfield "Loaded" after 35K rounds will still produce 2" groups, if I do my part. Maybe after another 50K to 60K rounds it will only shoot as well as a new military issue 1911. By that time, I will be old enough to have quit caring.
     
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    The cheaper (price and quality) pistols tend to be the ones to worry round count on. They'll let you know pretty quickly if they've really been shot. The higher quality pistols like the Sigs and CZs you're looking at don't show much wear till you're much higher in round count. I have 2 P07s currently, one with more than 1500 rounds through it and one with less than 500. Both look brand new. Some people would say 1500 rounds is barely breaking a gun in while others may shoot 50 through their pistol in their entire lifetime.

    I say don't worry much about the round count. Just make sure it's not worn out or abused. And, if at all possible, shoot all you can. That gun you've been eyeing and think you're gonna love may not be so wonderful when you shoot it.
     
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