Banks at it again, Targeting Spikes Tactical now

[sharkey]

Yep, and it was through those regulations that banks were forced to participate in Operation Choke Point.

I'd rather a few businesses deny me service because they think I'm icky, than the government telling a whole industry to deny me service.

Well I am not in favor of either. It is not an either/or decision. I am not in favor of a govt telling an industry to deny me service AND I am not in favor of a business denying me service because of a legal behavior I am involved in that has no detriment to said business.

 

[avvidclif]

Their business, their rules. My money, my rules. It's called free market enterprise, get over it. Don't use them or move your money, your choice. We don't need any more laws and/or regulations telling businesses how to do it. The govt can't even run a whorehouse. (good legend anyway). I won't do business with anyone who opposes my view of the 2A and it's my choice to do so. If enough do it, it "might" hurt. But at least I'll do my part. Can you tell I'm self-employed and have been for a long time.

 

[Nick!]

You can't allow yourself to get upset? Yeah, it's just a firearm business right? Who cares about Spikes Tactical, their employees, and how they contribute to the FL economy? You do live among us right? The trusty govt. steps in and forces business' to do something all the time. Your health insurance and 1/6 of the GDP is a prime example. That said, I am not arguing for more govt. regulation or taxation. Let's face it, other than the military, the govt. really doesn't do much well. What I am arguing is that a Corporate entity that has investors, a board. and solicits the public to exchange commerce with them should not be allowed to selectively choose to disavow a customer that is abiding within the law and has done nothing wrong within the policy they both initially agreed to. It's not just about a firearm business.

Ok, I get it. Life isn't fair, and it might not be fair for Spike's, the employees, and the state of Florida in this situation. My hope is that regardless of the specifics of the situation, we can press on to promote equal opportunity and not rely on the government to ensure equal outcome.

 

[diesel1959]

So long as it's not the fed.gov telling those banks not to permit banking services to gun-related businesses, it's all good. There should be no surprise that some banks would--all on their own--opt to make that choice.

 

[sharkey]

Their business, their rules. My money, my rules. It's called free market enterprise, get over it. Don't use them or move your money, your choice. We don't need any more laws and/or regulations telling businesses how to do it. The govt can't even run a whorehouse. (good legend anyway). I won't do business with anyone who opposes my view of the 2A and it's my choice to do so. If enough do it, it "might" hurt. But at least I'll do my part. Can you tell I'm self-employed and have been for a long time.

So a business should be able to make any rules they want independent of any govt. oversight to selectively ban a customer that exhibits a lawful behavior they simply do not like. Ok, we all have opinions. Screw Spikes Tactical then. Ban armed police officers at NFL games too because you know they shoot black people.......

 

[Dawico]

A business should be able to choose whom they want to serve just like we should be able to choose which business we go to.

The business matters not to as and neither does their discrimination.

 

[easy rider]

Asking the government to intervene is like asking the government to limit freedom. They'll do it, but you won't like it.

 

[Younggun]

So a business should be able to make any rules they want independent of any govt. oversight to selectively ban a customer that exhibits a lawful behavior they simply do not like.

Yes.


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[CyberWolf]

There's a much larger issue here than simply freedom of association or Gov oversight which I haven't see addressed.....

Apologies in advance for the length of post...

First, generally not a fan of additonal regulation, but in some extremely limited cases it is required to some degree in order to support the fabric of society, particularly given human nature which does not change. This is a larger topic which is thread-worthy (book-worthy actually) in it's own right...

Second, regulation is a completely seperate issue than abuse of regulation for nafarious purposes. Just as with the Law Enforcement perspective where the existence of a small number of bad apples who abuse the Badge for selfish/evil intent (once again, human nature & percentages), in no way invalidates the concepts of RoL or the validity and contribution of the vast majority of LEO for whom it's a Calling; the succeptability to abuse through the regulatory function, while a problem which must be addressed, does not invalidate the validity of (selective and minimally-required) regulation where necessary.

And here is the crux of the issue - With the push to electronic payments across the board (not so subtle intent is a cashless society whereby all transactions can be observed/tracked throughout payment networks of one type or another), this becomes less about free association vs overreaching regulation, and more about the potential to be essentially 'excommunicated' from LIFE.

The three core Unalienable Rights (self-evident truths; enumerated in the DoI), Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness, quite simply cannot be realized if one has been precluded or shunned from participating in general trade and/or commerce. To wit:

Given the developments of modern society, commerce/payment models, and an already primarily cashless/barterless economy, the selective shunning of people/businesses from participating in trade/commerce platforms/Networks/Institutions is a direct and egregious violation of their Natural Rights, let alone privileges conferred through Citizenship. It is an attempt to destroy, and if the same were applied/viewed at scale (e.g. Nation State level) it could even potentially be interpreted as an act of War. Another way of looking at this might be as equivalent to severing all supply-chain access in order to destroy an enemy/force.

Regulation is needed to prevent Fraud/Abuse/Negligence/Harm, account for reasonable & appropriate oversight, and provide for Punative/Compensatory/Corrective action where appropriate.


To bring this all home: While there may be slightly different considerations with regard to loans, targeted financial products, etc.,

In no way should these (any) institutions be permitted to summarily excommunicate businesses or individuals from accessing & using essential commerce & financial products/networks which are required to function in modern society. Not for anything. Especially not for political, ideological, or social engineering bullshit.

Truly, that way lies War if pushed to an extreme, and it would be foolish to ignore the preponderance of historical & anecdotal evidence supporting that conclusion.

 

[AustinN4]

I'm not attorney or legal expert, but I still don't see how government regulation, presumably having mostly to do with things like financial holding requirements, licensing, financial reporting and all the now Too Big to Fail BS would extends to oversight about who the bank can and can't do business with.

It doesn't, as long as they don't discriminate against a legally protected class member.

 

[avvidclif]

Their business, their rules. My money, my rules. It's called free market enterprise, get over it. Don't use them or move your money, your choice. We don't need any more laws and/or regulations telling businesses how to do it. The govt can't even run a whorehouse. (good legend anyway). I won't do business with anyone who opposes my view of the 2A and it's my choice to do so. If enough do it, it "might" hurt. But at least I'll do my part. Can you tell I'm self-employed and have been for a long time.

So a business should be able to make any rules they want independent of any govt. oversight to selectively ban a customer that exhibits a lawful behavior they simply do not like. Ok, we all have opinions. Screw Spikes Tactical then. Ban armed police officers at NFL games too because you know they shoot black people.......

You figured it out. Your last idea is so far out in left field it doesn't justify an answer

 

[sharkey]

Their business, their rules. My money, my rules. It's called free market enterprise, get over it. Don't use them or move your money, your choice. We don't need any more laws and/or regulations telling businesses how to do it. The govt can't even run a whorehouse. (good legend anyway). I won't do business with anyone who opposes my view of the 2A and it's my choice to do so. If enough do it, it "might" hurt. But at least I'll do my part. Can you tell I'm self-employed and have been for a long time.

You figured it out. Your last idea is so far out in left field it doesn't justify an answer

It wasn't my idea, it was the NFL. We already have social media platforms bias against conservatives so I am just surprised so many are in favor of it here. What about cross necklaces? Should businesses ban customers who wear those too? You'll seem stuck on added govt. Regulations. You know that is primarily what Congress does when on session right? I see it as 2 distinct issues. Good thing we don't live in a democracy......

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[MTA]

So Bank of America, Citigroup and now Fifth Third. All on the no lines of credit / accounts with these assholes list

 

[sharkey]

Asking the government to intervene is like asking the government to limit freedom. They'll do it, but you won't like it.

So everything the govt. Does, citizens will not like? Seems a bit over dramatic and far reaching.

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[sharkey]

A business should be able to choose whom they want to serve just like we should be able to choose which business we go to.

The business matters not to as and neither does their discrimination. View attachment 150843

As long as it is not a protected class right? Screw everyone else.

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[easy rider]

So everything the govt. Does, citizens will not like? Seems a bit over dramatic and far reaching.

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The government wasn't formed to regulate business practices within the United States, although I can certainly see an intervention on monopolies. Free trade should be considered.

The point I was making is that if there is enough outcry the government will step in. 9/11 was one such outcry and people really don't fully understand what freedoms they gave up in the name of security. Asking for more regulations through government intervention is like saying "take a little more freedom".

I certainly don't agree with what these banks are doing, but as long as I have the freedom to go elsewhere I'll take that over forcing them into more regulations. The more that people want government to control our lives and the lives of others, the less freedom for all.

 

[AustinN4]

So Bank of America, Citigroup and now Fifth Third. All on the no lines of credit / accounts with these assholes list

Why would you want to anyway? Here is a list of the 100 largest Texas-based banks, which allows you to see which are headquartered in Texas:
https://www.dob.texas.gov/public/up...blications/Publications/Top-Banks/top0316.pdf

My favorite on this list is Prosperity Bank. But Frost is headquartered here also as are many others. I picked the largest 100 simply on the assumption that they would offer the most diverse products and services, but a small local Texas-based community might meet your needs as well.

 

[mroper]

Great.. .we just got a car financed through 5th 3rd

www.paymeformyrefi.org/

Local Houston credit Union.
I am not affliated with them in any way heard it on Michael Berry show.

 

[MTA]

Why would you want to anyway? Here is a list of the 100 largest Texas-based banks, which allows you to see which are headquartered in Texas:
https://www.dob.texas.gov/public/up...blications/Publications/Top-Banks/top0316.pdf

My favorite on this list is Prosperity Bank. But Frost is headquartered here also as are many others. I picked the largest 100 simply on the assumption that they would offer the most diverse products and services, but a small local Texas-based community might meet your needs as well.

Huh? I just said they are on a list of not to use.

I just do all my banking through NFCU or USAA. I move alot and I probably wont stay in Texas for too long(not the place I grew up in anymore and its way too populated for me) so the local banks dont fit my needs but thanks for sharing for those folks who are curious about getting away from the larger banks

 

[AustinN4]

Huh? I just said they are on a list of not to use.

Sounded like you were talking personally.