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  • F350-6

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    May 25, 2009
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    ...
    "the LEO is suppose to do what"

    The LEO is supposed to be a professional.
    They are supposed to be a reasoning, thinking, adult.
    They should be above trying to harm someone, be it legally, physically, or monetarily, just because the person annoyed them.
    They should abide by their mission.
    I think that they should do their duty.

    So what exactly do you believe their duty is? To enforce the letter of the law, ie. speeding ticket for going 56 in a 55, or to enforce the intent of the law with discretion allowed for minor technicalities?

    If the officers mindset is, I'm going to just give them a warning for this violation as long as things go well and there are no red flags, how is that different than saying, if you're an a$$, I won't let you off, or I'll make you pay (what you owe)?

    To me, it's a matter of perspective. If there was a valid reason to pull you over, then there's a valid reason to issue a citation. Being nice might invoke officer discretion and get you out of that.

    Of course if you are dealing with a bad apple and just got pulled over for driving while black or something similar, then it really doesn't matter how you act. They're looking for an excuse.
    Lynx Defense
     

    pharmaco

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    So what exactly do you believe their duty is? To enforce the letter of the law, ie. speeding ticket for going 56 in a 55, or to enforce the intent of the law with discretion allowed for minor technicalities?
    If the officers mindset is, I'm going to just give them a warning for this violation as long as things go well and there are no red flags, how is that different than saying, if you're an a$$, I won't let you off, or I'll make you pay (what you owe)?
    To me, it's a matter of perspective. If there was a valid reason to pull you over, then there's a valid reason to issue a citation. Being nice might invoke officer discretion and get you out of that.
    Of course if you are dealing with a bad apple and just got pulled over for driving while black or something similar, then it really doesn't matter how you act. They're looking for an excuse.
    I'm not saying that at all.

    Here's what I am saying:
    Let's say you're pulled over for reason A.
    It's perfectly reasonable for the LEO to do everything related to A and less.

    If the LEO is offended and starts fabricating things totally unrelated to and beyond reason A in order to satisfy their offended state, I disagree with that on a fundamental level.
     

    diesel1959

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    Maybe if you'd make clear statements that wouldn't happen.

    You are making a lot of intentionally vague statements
    Here's a clear statement for you: A lot of the job of being a law enforcement officer is exercising certain levels of discretion and, often showing a bit of mercy with courtesy. Courtesy and respect are met with same among good folks. However, when an officer is met with ugliness and rude behavior, do you seriously wonder why he/she would opt to exercise that discretion in a manner which might not be the most "beneficial" to the person?
     

    benenglish

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    The 2 or 3 (or more) of you who want to keep repeating yourselves and calling names need to take it to a private Conversation or start a new thread.

    Jon gave us a good OP and we had an important thread that may be updated in the future with more pertinent details. I'd like to preserve it. But the thread drift here is, even by TGT standards, overwhelming the purpose of the thread.

    Everybody has made their points. If the waste of space continues, I won't lock the thread but I will delete pages of posts to clean it up. Given that I'm sure you're all proud of the insightful points you've made, I assume you'd like to preserve them. The only way to preserve them is to stop adding to them in this public thread.

    Take it private or take it elsewhere.
     

    sharkey

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    I still think it is relevant but as an admin. Do whatever you want. Being disarmed by the police was started by a LEO and I am just adding more things to what can happen on the stop which many seem to disagree with.
    Speaking of the original topic, any new info. Jon?

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    Jon Payne

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    I still think it is relevant but as an admin. Do whatever you want. Being disarmed by the police was started by a LEO and I am just adding more things to what can happen on the stop which many seem to disagree with.
    Speaking of the original topic, any new info. Jon?

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    I spoke with my buddy today. He's still drafting a letter that may or may not do anything. Unfortunately he's asked me not to reveal the name of the County or the Sheriff and I will abide by his wishes.
     

    Jon Payne

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    I still think it is relevant but as an admin. Do whatever you want. Being disarmed by the police was started by a LEO and I am just adding more things to what can happen on the stop which many seem to disagree with.
    Speaking of the original topic, any new info. Jon?

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

    I'm a former LEO. My license is valid, but I don't have anyone carrying my commision. I've had offers and I'm considering becoming a reserve just to keep teaching and making it easier to keep up with required hours etc.
     

    lightflyer1

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    Back in the early days when I carried in a fanny pack, several times I was asked if I was carrying. We had some good conversations and gun discussions. Never any issues though. My brother and I went shooting out at his land. On the way back home we got pulled over for a headlight out that had a loose connection. After banging on the fender it came back on. Then he asked us what all the guns (23 or so) that were racked up back in the pickup bed were for. We explained and had a good discussion. He told us he didn't envy us having to clean all of them when we got back though. Told us to fix the headlight and be safe!
     

    Frank59

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    My brother and I went shooting out at his land. On the way back home we got pulled over for a headlight out that had a loose connection. After banging on the fender it came back on. Then he asked us what all the guns (23 or so) that were racked up back in the pickup bed were for. We explained and had a good discussion. He told us he didn't envy us having to clean all of them when we got back though. Told us to fix the headlight and be safe!
    Sounds like you were polite and cooperative with the officer and he responded accordingly. Who would have thought?
     

    lightflyer1

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    All of my interactions with the police have been civil and straightforward if not friendly as well. Except one. When I first moved to Austin I went with a friend to pick up his wife from work. On the way back a cop had someone pulled over and was giving them a ticket. I laughed at the guy getting the ticket, out the open window. The cop let them go and pulled us over and yanked me from the car, cuffed me and pushed me into the back seat of his car. I said nothing at all. On the long drive back in on 183 to the police station downtown he asked me "Do you know why you are here?". I replied no. He said "You are an a**hole!". I never said another word. Booked me in for public intoxication when I never drink or do drugs. They held me for about 8 hours or so and let me out. Not a very pleasant experience but I don't let it cloud my thoughts on the whole police department. I don't think the lesson I learned was the one he thought he was teaching me though.
     

    oldag

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    In what environment? On a street with 5 bangers in a car at 1A? You seem rather agreeable of the 3 here so I don't get why you have such a hard time with this? Even they got professional treatment until their attitude changed. You know who is really polite? Those on parole. They are also very dangerous. Check a ASP video from 2 weeks ago where two LAPD dropped a banger on parole on a stop that goes bad. He gave 0 indicators he was gonna pull a gun and start shooting.

    You don't know what you don't know.

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    You just keep changing the scenario.

    We started out talking about pulling over a single individual for a traffic stop.

    You could not make your points or justify your attitude for that scenario, so now you come up with something completely different.

    Bottom line, you cannot justify your attitude. But, hey, keep trying.
     

    sharkey

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    You just keep changing the scenario.

    We started out talking about pulling over a single individual for a traffic stop.

    You could not make your points or justify your attitude for that scenario, so now you come up with something completely different.

    Bottom line, you cannot justify your attitude. But, hey, keep trying.

    You just keep changing the scenario.

    We started out talking about pulling over a single individual for a traffic stop.

    You could not make your points or justify your attitude for that scenario, so now you come up with something completely different.

    Bottom line, you cannot justify your attitude. But, hey, keep trying.

    I asked what environment that worked for you and you post this. So from your post, you have had a violator who copped an attitude and you defused it by being polite? It can be done but most often not. The scenarios are the same. If you don't want to answer, just say so.

    I didn't have to justify my attitude at all. I got Recruit Officer of the Year, I was a FTO for 3 years. I wrote a lesson plan for dealing with CHL holders. I then spent a decade helping Prosecutors sending some POSs to prison. Someone with a chip on their shoulder, who is a thug, and has anger issues usually doesn't accomplish that.
    I had a Sgt. Ask me what I said to a neighbor who was way too nosey when he called to complain on me. I told the Sgt. Exactly what I said and it was very impolite. The Sgt. States that is what he said you said, carry on. Now that was mid 90s and today I would be suspended for that. Times have changed and you get the policing you ask for. Good luck with that.

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