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The Gun Range in Killeen Gets Slapped by OSHA Police

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  • Younggun

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    Well, then I guess the ranges should just poison their employees and their customers.

    I’m gonna take a wild guess and say you have no idea how OSHA works, have never actually dealt with OSHA, and have never actually had to try and apply any of their regulations in a real world setting.





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    Dad_Roman

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    I don't think you can. Best you can do is allow them access with no one working and no customers ( = no hazard)
    Sure you can (and thats part of the point. If customers and workers are there, well.......)



    Screw OSHA. Another out of control entity.
    Always...
    also Dawico said:
    So you think a $214k fine is reasonable?
    for sweeping vs vacuming...and broken PPE? (Like what...glasses broke?..ear plug cord broke?) <assumptions>

    Absolutely absurd. Employee reported is the worst, and its usually a fired employee. (dont ask me how I know)



    I’m gonna take a wild guess and say you have no idea how OSHA works, have never actually dealt with OSHA, and have never actually had to try and apply any of their regulations in a real world setting

    Sounds like you deal with them for sure. Please correct me if Im wrong.

    I kinda hate to dip my toe in this one, also my experience was 20+ years ago.

    We dont really know how all this went down so there is a lot of assumptions when discussed. When "they" show up, usually its with clipboard in hand, no announcement (used to). You could deny entry and politely request a written request for a future appointment along with written statement of accusations and areas to be inspected for said infractions. That buys you time to clean up, right your wrongs, etc etc.

    When they come back at the set time you will HAVE to let them in because you agreed to it and they would make you miserable for any actions beyond anyways. (cops, court orders etc)

    Hopefully you have your act together by then....its about buying a little time to avoid the hammer (so to speak)

    OSHA said:
    The company has 15 business days from receipt of its citations and penalties to comply, request an informal conference with OSHA’s area director, or contest the findings before the independent Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission.

    Even after this particular event it seems there were a few minor infractions (although hard to say what "minor" is in their world. 214K seems a little stiff) and the facility was given 15 days to "clean up" and report back to them. (which is usually the way to go).

    Better put the disclaimer in here...
    This was just my experience in layman terms....just my .02....YMMV

    .
     
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    Coiled

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    So,,,,,,,
    Do you actually know anything about the place?
    The only reason I have not tried the place is the cost. But I have friends and customers that are members. And I have talked to them. And they agree that it is a nice range and CLEAN. Cleaner than most of the indoor ranges I have seen. As well as doing what they can to keep lead to a minimum.
    Personally, I would like to see what standard OSHA is using as most people would not be exposed to the building for long periods at a time. I would also expect there to be elevated lead levels in any indoor range by nature of the business.
    The General Industry Lead Standard (29 CFR 1910.1025) applies to all occupational exposures to lead with the exception of the construction industry and the agricultural industry (these are regulated separately). The General Industry Lead Standard applies to all employees at your shooting range.

    https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.1025


    Here is a 40 page, 6MB PDF put together by NSSF with OSHA's cooperation titled Lead Management & OSHA compliance for indoor shooting ranges.

    https://www.usashooting.org/library...d_College_Programs/Lead_Management_-_NSSF.pdf
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    I have heard rumors, but this is the first time I have seen anything concrete. Have not been there but have talked on the phone with them and talked to customers. I personally know several.
    They all talk about what a clean place it is. Although expensive. When I called, I was told that steel case ammo, bi-metal and non-jacketed ammo was not allowed. No solid lead projectiles.

    Something fishy somewhere. The last time I went to Red's, it was filthy. And this place has been open less than a year I think.

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    Aren't a lot of .22 rounds solid lead?
    I've never been asked about my .22 ammo anywhere.
     

    karlac

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    I took the course and got "Lead Abatement Certified" in the construction business myself, in particular for remodeling homes built before 1978, so I could insure ALL the necessary steps were done properly.

    The lead liability is some scary shit for anyone in business, especially small business owners

    ... exception of the construction industry and the agricultural industry (these are regulated separately). /QUOTE]
     

    Shotgun Jeremy

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    OSHA is so ridiculous with their fines. When I was working at a Nuclear Sub base, we had a guy who's main job was randomly inspecting and correcting shops on base to help keep OSHA off our ass. He told me that the fine for a 55 gallon drum lid ring being upside down was something like $80,000.
    Cans of spray paint had something like a 1 or 2 year shelf life, and then you had to go get it extended no more than 3 times for 6 months each.

    OSHA is weird.

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    Younggun

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    Sure you can (and thats part of the point. If customers and workers are there, well.......)



    Always...
    for sweeping vs vacuming...and broken PPE? (Like what...glasses broke?..ear plug cord broke?) <assumptions>

    Absolutely absurd. Employee reported is the worst, and its usually a fired employee. (dont ask me how I know)





    Sounds like you deal with them for sure. Please correct me if Im wrong.

    I kinda hate to dip my toe in this one, also my experience was 20+ years ago.

    We dont really know how all this went down so there is a lot of assumptions when discussed. When "they" show up, usually its with clipboard in hand, no announcement (used to). You could deny entry and politely request a written request for a future appointment along with written statement of accusations and areas to be inspected for said infractions. That buys you time to clean up, right your wrongs, etc etc.

    When they come back at the set time you will HAVE to let them in because you agreed to it and they would make you miserable for any actions beyond anyways. (cops, court orders etc)

    Hopefully you have your act together by then....its about buying a little time to avoid the hammer (so to speak)



    Even after this particular event it seems there were a few minor infractions (although hard to say what "minor" is in their world. 214K seems a little stiff) and the facility was given 15 days to "clean up" and report back to them. (which is usually the way to go).

    Better put the disclaimer in here...
    This was just my experience in layman terms....just my .02....YMMV

    .

    You might tell them to go away, but depending on the circumstance they might tell you to sit down and shut up.

    Also, telling them to go away is likely going to guarantee you get it extra hard and without lube.


    Even better, if I piss them off they are perfectly capable of levying hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines against ME, not just the company I work for. Teach me to trust that the safety glasses a guy on my crew wears were actually Z-87.

    And damn it. What was I thinking allowing them to fill a water bottle from the igloo cooler on the truck. OSHA says I MUST have little paper cups that blow around everywhere, get dirty, and make a big mess. How dare I allow filling of their own water bottles. Another fine for that shit too, you punk as little shit. We saw that from the road, now wonder you wanted us to leave so we couldn’t see you getting people killed with these water bottles.



    I don’t like OSHA. They may do a good thing every now and then. Might find a real issue here and there. Mostly they are a bureaucracy that supports and justifies itself through overzealous enforcement and heavy handed fines that tend to be a slap on the wrist for large corporations and a death sentence for small business.


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    Younggun

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    I can only imagine how ineffective and expensive their training would be.


    Example: I’m requires to keep a HAZWOPER certification. Can’t do much job without it.

    Out of a 40hr class it has exactly one paragraph the briefly mentions what I deal with.

    We have an 8hr refresher every year the doesn’t cover it at all. But it’s a requirement.

    Sure, it covers some government regs the nobody remembers because the reg is a bloated umbrellas policy that mostly isn’t pertinent. You learn about superfund sites the don’t actually have any bearing on how to do the job. But applicable information is lacking.

    Hey, at least we know it’s not an MSDS anymore. Too many damn letters I guess.

    Bureaucrats whipping out legislation in the form of regulation on subjects they know nothing about then sending a bunch of equally ignorant clip board wielding Napoleons out in to the field to wage war in common sense.


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    robertc1024

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    If their mandate was prevention instead of persecution, I'd feel better about them. TX used to have department/ agency whatever, that would do a safety inspection for you .They would walk through your business and tell you what OSHA violations you have so you could fix them before the feds showed up
     

    benenglish

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    If airborne lead level are low enough, employee testing isn't required. It's still a good idea.

    If I'm reading the press release correctly, they had excessive airborne lead. Since that was the case, they were cited for sweeping (which puts lead in the air but is easily corrected), broken safety equipment (another easy remedy in most cases, but the press release didn't have much detail), and failing to test or monitor employees.

    That last one disturbs me; it's the canary in the lead mine. If employee blood lead levels are rising, you have a problem. You don't know the problem exists, however, unless you're regularly testing. Their failure to do so is serious. Employee testing is the thing that ultimately tells you if your plans to deal with lead are succeeding and it's not smart to neglect to do any.

    Even if you're not testing the air and your regular cleaning regimen seems lax, a solid record of blood tests showing your employees aren't ingesting lead would go a long way toward mitigating against receiving formal citations and fines. Even in cases where the lead level in the air doesn't create a legal requirement to test, it's good insurance. It's also the right thing to do for your people.

    This range apparently managed to satisfy all requirements and resolve everything without anyone being hurt. Good for them. Too bad it took a failed inspection, citations, and proposed fines for them to get their act together.
     

    F350-6

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    This range apparently managed to satisfy all requirements and resolve everything without anyone being hurt. Good for them. Too bad it took a failed inspection, citations, and proposed fines for them to get their act together.

    I think the bigger issue is, compared to your average range, this one was already in the top 10% for cleanliness and not being a dump, so the targeted inspection makes it seam like someone has a vendetta.
     

    TAZ

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    While I tend to agree that OSHA, like many other regulatory agencies, need some serious reigning in, I’m confused why nobody is asking if the place was actually out of compliance with lead levels. Remember airborne lead levels don’t equate to clean floors. I’ve been to some indoor ranges that were filthy, yet I didn’t get a nasty headache from breathing inside the shooting stall. I’ve been to awesome looking ranger and gotten a headache from minutes inside. The 2 aren’t necessarily the same.

    If they were exposing customers and employees to excessive lead levels, then they need to be fined.
     
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