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Bump stock hearing.

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    robertc1024

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    ... theoretically, I could stand side by side with another bump stock owner, both of us holding our little pieces of plastic, and he could go away to prison for a decade while I have a ruling from the DC Circuit that protects me.

    That is so weird.

    Standard IANAL disclaimer applies.

    Not at all when concerning BAFTE. You could have two identical machine guns and if the paperwork weren't in order, one could send you to prison, one is fine.
    Military Camp
     

    leVieux

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    No offense, but your last couple of posts are not unlike Fudds saying, "what does anyone need with anything other than a double-barrel shotgun and bolt-action deer rifle?". There's not a question of need. There is a question of rights. We have the right and don't need to explain a need.

    After I left military service in 1985, I had no desire to own any full-auto weapons either; however, I definitely would never question why someone might wish to have them. Over three decades later, I actually have quite a few Title II items and am glad I decided to do so. It's not about need. It's about want.

    My point was that for most practical purposes, there should be little difference in "regulation" of these.

    I do not agree with ANY "gun control" applied to non-criminal citizens. PERIOD ! IMHO, "gun control" can only make everything worse. Sadly, many, especially urbanites and politicians just can't seem to understand that.

    Several of my friends in both TX & LA have "legal", licensed full-auto pieces and I've never heard of any problem with them.

    Please let's stick to differences between or similarities of the AR15 and the M16, for discussion here.

    leVieux
     

    Kar98

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    I do not agree with ANY "gun control" applied to non-criminal citizens. PERIOD !
    ...
    Please let's stick to differences between or similarities of the AR15 and the M16, for discussion here.

    leVieux

    On that note, not that I care anymore, you don't have to be a US citizen to own and carry guns. Law-abiding, legal permanent residents have these rights, also. Check your handy pocket Constitution and see where it uses "citizen" vs. "people". ;)
     

    benenglish

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    ...if you're a member of the FPC, the Madison Foundation, or Florida Carry, your bump stock is currently legal.
    I'm a member of all three organizations so my bump stock is legal as of the time I write this. According to an email I got, this is changing.

    I haven't confirmed any of this. I'll follow up tomorrow with sources (if I can) but I wanted to put something out tonight in case anyone knows more about this than I do.

    Apparently, since the emergency filing was denied today, an April 10 deadline to surrender or destroy the stocks has been negotiated. The government has agreed that if you turn in your stock at an ATF field office, you'll be provided a receipt. The ATF will retain the stock pending the outcome of the lawsuit. If the lawsuit is ultimately successful, you can take your receipt back down to the ATF field office and they'll give you back your bump stock.

    The source of the info in the preceding paragraph is an email from Florida Carry. They cite no sources. Their web site and all the other web sites of the plaintiffs and their lawyers are NOT updated with any information about this. I hope that at least bumpstockcase.com will have authoritative cites this weekend.

    I can see the future unfolding along several different paths but without authoritative sources to read it's pretty difficult to weigh options.
     

    benenglish

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    Text of the Supreme Court denial. This would seem to indicate that the April 10 deadline could be granted by the DC Circuit but was not granted by the USSC. The Florida Carry email seems to indicate the short-term stay has been granted but I'm still looking for the order. I won't believe it until I read it. Until I do, walking into an ATF field office with a bump stock doesn't sound particularly smart to me.

    Anyway, the text:
    (ORDER LIST: 587U.S.)

    FRIDAY, APRIL 5, 2019

    ORDER IN PENDING CASE

    18A1019 GUEDES, DAMIEN, ET AL.V. BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, ET AL.

    The application for stay, presented to The Chief Justice and by him referred to the Court, is denied.

    Applicants request that if we deny this application we grant a limited stay of 120 hours to allow them to come into compliance with the Final Rule. We refer the issue of such a stay to the D.C. Circuit for its consideration.

    Justice Thomas and Justice Gorsuch would grant the application.
     

    pronstar

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    Here’s your receipt.
    Aaaaand now you’re in a federal database, even if you get your bumpstock back.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    benenglish

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    Here’s your receipt.
    Aaaaand now you’re in a federal database, even if you get your bumpstock back.
    That occurred to me.

    There are plenty of ways this could go. However, assuming the Florida Carry email is correct, what are the most likely outcomes if you choose to get into compliance via surrendering the stock?
    1. The lawsuit ultimately fails.
      • Your bumpstock is gone.
      • You're in the ATF database as someone who is not their friend.
    2. The lawsuit ultimately prevails.
      • You get your bumpstock back but that's kind of meaningless. Why? Because newly made bumpstocks come back on the market and many thousands of old ones come out of hiding, i.e. they're available to purchase again.
      • You're still in the ATF database as someone who is not their friend.
    That's a distinction without too much of a difference. If I truly have until the 10th to comply with the rule, all the options are back on the table.

    Confusion and fatigue rule my brain at the moment. I'll come back when I have more info.
     

    RoadRunner

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    That occurred to me.

    There are plenty of ways this could go. However, assuming the Florida Carry email is correct, what are the most likely outcomes if you choose to get into compliance via surrendering the stock?
    1. The lawsuit ultimately fails.
      • Your bumpstock is gone.
      • You're in the ATF database as someone who is not their friend.
    2. The lawsuit ultimately prevails.
      • You get your bumpstock back but that's kind of meaningless. Why? Because newly made bumpstocks come back on the market and many thousands of old ones come out of hiding, i.e. they're available to purchase again.
      • You're still in the ATF database as someone who is not their friend.
    That's a distinction without too much of a difference. If I truly have until the 10th to comply with the rule, all the options are back on the table.

    Confusion and fatigue rule my brain at the moment. I'll come back when I have more info.

    Ben,
    I would bet that the bump stock that you had has been stolen. 'wink' Go look for it I bet it is gone. 'wink'
     

    benenglish

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    Posted on ARFCOM by what I believe to be the account of Adam Kraut:
    PER CURIAM ORDER [1781463] filed that, based on the government’s representation that it will not enforce the Bump-Stock Rule against the named plaintiffs or their bona fide members before 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, April 10, 2019, the emergency joint motion to extend stay order [1781365-2] be denied and the administrative stay entered on March 23, 2019, and clarified on March 25, 2019, be dissolved. The Clerk is directed to issue the mandate forthwith. Before Judges: Henderson, Srinivasan and Millett. [19-5042, 19-5044]
    I have been unable to find this information from a primary source. The DC Circuit Court web site doesn't have it or I don't know how to look it up properly.
     

    Shady

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    And that would be the 64th federal database I have been entered into at this point one more does not matter


    Here’s your receipt.
    Aaaaand now you’re in a federal database, even if you get your bumpstock back.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    benenglish

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    Unless something crazy happens with the guy from Utah, the bump stock thing is over for us normal folks. Mine went out in the trash, smashed into little pieces, last Wednesday.

    I hate admitting defeat but what's done is done. And so is this thread. It's too depressing to continue. :(
     
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