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AR Pistols, ATF changing the rules

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  • sucker76

    Don't let the username fool you
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    Ain't it grand to make up sh!t as you go?

    I read a little of the new opinion. It said OAL will be measured with integral parts like the extension tube on an AR pistol. So that tells me the AR pistols are measured with the brace collapsed onto the buffer tube and AK pistol guys need to measure from the rear of the receiver and not the brace. My big question is what about the hinge mechanism for AR buffer tubes? Are they measured extended or collapsed because it has a hinge?
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I was under the impression that braced pistols could never have fore-grip added and remain a non NFA taxed item. Is this decision more to do with rifle, sbr and aow classifications?

    IIRC, an OAL >26” and barrel <16” could use a VFG. See the Franklin XO-26.

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/06/franklin-armory-xo-26b-has-franklin-hacked-the-nfa/

    What my lay understanding is that ATF is essentially saying measure the firearm in its shortest configuration to obtain OAL.
     

    Nietzsche

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    IIRC, an OAL >26” and barrel <16” could use a VFG. See the Franklin XO-26.

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/06/franklin-armory-xo-26b-has-franklin-hacked-the-nfa/

    What my lay understanding is that ATF is essentially saying measure the firearm in its shortest configuration to obtain OAL.

    Ah so it's not actually classified as a "pistol" like the sig mpx but rather it falls outside of current classifications, to become it's own entity where by dimensions are important.
     

    DoubleDuty

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    That means you can make it a rifle or pistol. But if you make it a pistol then it becomes an NFA item.
     

    gshayd

    Ugliest house on the block.
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    If you buy a AR 15 it's marked as a rifle. If you buy an AR15 pistol it's marked as a pistol. If you buy just the receiver by itself it's marked as other since it is not a completed firearm yet.

    The best vertical grip on my AR15 pistol is the magazine well.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    I was under the impression that braced pistols could never have fore-grip added and remain a non NFA taxed item. Is this decision more to do with rifle, sbr and aow classifications?
    Exactly! I don't know what this ATF clarification has to do with. If my AR pistol is < 26" or my AR pistol is >26", doesn't matter either way, a vertical foregrip turns it into something other than a pistol. But I have to measure it without the brace and without the muzzle device, unless it is pinned or welded.

    Greater than 26" overall length, it loses it's conceal-ability, so it becomes something else. Am I mixing apples and foregrips here? What the hell!
     

    Renegade

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    https://www.recoilweb.com/measuring...OOc347IJ9P5ARWulUNhmXz9aAtb97BZg13MnM1J9xcIDg

    In short, they now say that any collapsible or folding stock will be measured when collapsed or folded.
    Putting a vertical fore-grip on an AR Pistol will likely create an NFA violation.

    If I am reading it correctly. Anyway, if you build them or own one, you should probably read the ATF update.

    No, that is not what they said and you are reading it incorrectly. Only stabilizing braces are measured folded, stocks are still measured open.
     

    Renegade

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    So what's that mean? That it can't be changed to a rifle? My FFL said a pistol can be changed to a rifle but a rifle cannot be changed to a pistol.

    You bought it as other, so if you build it as a pistol, you can later make it a rifle. If you first build it as a rifle, you cannot later re-configure it as a pistol.
     

    Renegade

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    Exactly! I don't know what this ATF clarification has to do with. If my AR pistol is < 26" or my AR pistol is >26", doesn't matter either way, a vertical foregrip turns it into something other than a pistol. But I have to measure it without the brace and without the muzzle device, unless it is pinned or welded.

    Correct. This ruling has little bearing. The only people it would affect are folks who put a SB on a firearm with barrel >16. Nobody does that as far as I have seen. The whole purpose is to put it on a firearm with a barrel <16, and not have it become an SBR when you put the stock, err I mean SB on it.
     

    Southpaw

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    That means you can make it a rifle or pistol. But if you make it a pistol then it becomes an NFA item.

    That's not true. It becomes a "NFA item" only when one adds a VFG to a pistol, as defined by the ATF.

    An AR or AK pistol (less then 26" OAL) with a brace, whether folding or fixed, is still just a pistol. As stated earlier and on numerous videos, this case comes out of a specific business who were selling braced AR pistols who's OAL (according to atf) was less then 26" and included a VFG.
    The business was stating that since the OAL was over 26" with the brace, these were considered firearms and therefore not pistols at all. They were wrong.
    The ATF is clarifying that the braces are not counted by them when considering OAL, which I always thought was the case to begin with.


    You could never add a VFG to a pistol without creating an AOW.
    A brace was never considered a stock, so why would one consider it in OAL?
     
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