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  • candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
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    Jul 23, 2011
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    Little Elm
    Funny ironic thing, only the far left loonies consider words as an assault requiring a full retaliatory scorched earth offensive to kill and destroy your life and justification for a good ol fashioned mob style beat down..

    But guns are bad because of tempers and shit.
     

    busykngt

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    McKinney

    sdismukes

    Bending nails and making sawdust
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    Nov 26, 2014
    1,526
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    Erath County
    ..." in Texas words are not enough to start a confrontation."

    You're kidding, right?

    When it comes to a SYG situation words are not considered enough provocation to constitute starting the confrontation. Sticks and stones. ...

    For sure words can start a fight. That wasn’t the context, no matter how you chose to misread it. Yo mamma stuff, racial slurs, etc. The standard for SYG is different.

    Had the incident happened in Texas the dead guy would have been the one who started the confrontation with the bull-rush and pushing the shooter violently to the ground. Having words with his girl did not justify the violence. The violence, however, justified the shooting. I can only presume FL is similar, but someone from FL will have to weigh in.

    If I was kidding I’d have had an emoji in there.
     
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    Aug 17, 2010
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    Had the incident happened in Texas the dead guy would have been the one who started the confrontation with the bull-rush and pushing the shooter violently to the ground. Having words with his girl did not justify the violence. The violence, however, justified the shooting. I can only presume FL is similar, but someone from FL will have to weigh in.

    In Texas if you run your mouth and get assaulted you can lose your justification to fight back. Bottom line: if you carry a gun don't run your mouth to strangers.
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Jul 23, 2011
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    Little Elm
    I'm not a lawyer, never been in Florida and you cant call me from jail. Now that my legal uselessness is stated I will be more useless as a court watcher.

    We see the prosecution trying to dismantle any disparity in force related to age and age related durability. We also see them clearly building the narrative this guy was armed and armed specifically looking to shoot disabled parking violations at that store. Weather you believe that I would think is tenuous at best. One argument 5 years ago doesn't support that.

    You dont get to claim self defense if you took specific steps to arm and enter a situation expecting to have an opportunity to shoot. His mouth and history wont help.

    But...

    His mouth and history could also be used by the defense to show he never actually directly threatened people that day and never acted like he was going to that day or before and didnt take special precautions like extended mags or extra mags he didnt normally carry etc. All that stuff has been used to successfully convict people of gun related misconduct and menacing crimes before and recently.

    This said we have to see the defense. It's never good for the prosecution when the star on scene witnesses start changing words or phrases people said once on the stand. It makes them look like they exaggerated. Doing that can easily get 1 jury member to ignore their testimony.

    This guy actions and words clearly showed he felt justified, almost arrogantly so, and displayed no negative feelings about having to kill someone in front of their kid. That can also get a juror to disregard your testimony or important parts or support the prosecution assertion you intended for this to eventually happen.

    The prosecution is still going to have to get past the fact the dead guy assaulted the shooter with out seeing or hearing an actual threat, words arent a threat, the defense already got to witnesses to admit they heard no actual threat after asserting so in the beginning and or depositions, and stepping between the shooter and his family would be a more appropriate response if someone is hollering as would telling her to get the kids out of this danger she says she felt. Which by the way is probably an appropriate response for the girlfriend. Remember there was no gun and no threat. Infact the woman's statement of do you want me to get my man seems to be the first escalation of the rhetoric. She clearly wanted to see the old guy get his ass whipped as that's how she acted imho. Still though meaningless and not a crime, except that the defense can use her words to show who started ratcheting up the rhetoric and that she wasnt thinking of her babies.

    Still a crap shoot. This is why you avoid conflict while carrying and dont threaten people or mention gun or force or fight. It takes you into grey areas that may seriously cost you.

    The legalities of the sign are meaningless. The idiot thought it justified his arshole-ish attitude but means nothing to the deadly force justification.
     
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    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Little Elm
    So, who started it?
    The assault? The boyfriend IMHO.
    Was it justification? The jury will decide that, at least temporarily.

    I wouldnt have shot the guy for just that. I am pretty crippled and I wouldnt even draw for being pushed down, for many reasons but to start you need your hands if the guy immediately trys to kick so you can defend your head but also get up or in some defensive position so you can draw. Boots to the head will kill you and then you're clearly justified. I wouldnt be in this position because as crotchety as I am I wont stop to argue with anyone beyond saying your number one. It's a bad tactical position to begin with...to be standing in front of a window of a car I mean. Besides I dont derive my self worth from the rantings of yapping jackles. In the end that's all people are who Howl insults as you walk aaway are and I bet they wont come up with anything new I havnt heard before.

    ETA..everyone with any self awareness will question themselves when they walk away from such incidents. This incident is why you walk away. It's not worth a life, justified in the end or not.
     
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    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Jul 23, 2011
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    Little Elm
    What caused the boyfriend to assault him?
    Nothing, legally and he isnt here to say otherwise.

    Again there were more appropriate and legal responses IMHO.
    Everyone else there testified that while there is yelling and arguing there were no threats. The boyfriend cant testify he saw an actual threat. So rushing out the door and blind siding the old guy initiated the assault.

    Weather the defense can clearly get that across to the jury and they buy it is the question.

    It should be noted this guys being an ars probably limit the experts who would testify for him. Something else to consider for your self.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    May 14, 2008
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    The Woodlands, Tx.
    So, the shooter was standing there, minding his own business, and the boyfriend assaulted him for absolutely no reason?
     

    Frank59

    Wheel Gunner
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    May 14, 2018
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    San Angelo
    Shooter was talking shit to the dead guys girlfriend. If I remember correctly the shooter had a history of playing judge advocate and letting all concerned know he was packing a weapon.
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    Little Elm
    So, the shooter was standing there, minding his own business, and the boyfriend assaulted him for absolutely no reason?
    No ofcourse not but were talking justification to use physical force here and the boyfriend had none. He absolutely no legal justification to push the old guy. That doesn't mean most folks would say he would probably benefit from an ars whipping but that is not in anyway justification for running out of the store and blind siding him.

    It's hard to understand sometimes that deserve or outta have or any like feelings have very little to do with the legal justification to use physical force or deadly force. That's why you have to control your feelings and not blow up. In the end its Comes down to the elements of the use of force. What they saw and how they reacted. When they would be justified to do something and when they wouldnt be. The laws aren't the same in every state and a whole lot depends on jury instructions, size of your pocketbook in hiring lawyers or experts.

    When you carry it's always best to avoid confrontation. If it is brought to you then deal with it but regardless weather this ends up being justified, i.e. acquired at this point or not, there was no reason it had to happen except for the actions of all involved. If they all acted like responsable adults at any point they would have derailed the train.
     
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    AustinN4

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    9   0   0
    Nov 27, 2013
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    So, the shooter initiated the mess, correct?
    Again, there are two messes:
    Mess 1. Shooter gives aggressor's girlfriend grief for parking in a clearly marked handicap parking place.
    Mess 2. Boyfriend comes out and immediately pushed shooter hard and to the ground.
    3. Shooter draws down on the boyfriend and shoots him
    4. Boyfriend dies.
    Was the video pulled? Clearly shows all of the above.
     
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