Romanian WASR or SUB 2000

[KAK]

I am toying with the idea of a cheap vehicle gun.

Each has their own cool attributes. I like the 2k because I can fold it up and put in my leather computer briefcase.

I like the WASR because it is reliable, and has a heavy hitting 30 cal round.

The WASR would be primarily a vehicle gun. The SUB 2k will serve dual purpose as a concealable carbine/vehicle gun.

The WASR is far more readily available, Are they good guns? I want to keep the gun plus 5 mags under $500.

I am leaning toward the WASR, Is there any reason I might want to reconsider?

 

[espnazi]

I would opt for a WASR(perhaps with a folding stock), or what about a Draco Pistol which is said to be higher quality than a wasr since it assembled in Romania and only imported by Century since 922r doesn't apply to pistols.

 

[KAK]

How long is a Draco Pistol? Do you think I could fit one of them into a computer briefcase??

 

[espnazi]

According to century's website it is 21.5", the nice thing about these is you can always pay the tax stamp and make it a SBR.

 

[majormadmax]

Yep, the Draco would be a better choice for a vehicle weapon. I picked one up last week and maybe down the road will SBR it...

It is easy to add some parachord to serve as a rear sling point, instructions area available through a search of the Internet or just PM me. It helps stabilize the weapon when shooting, it's still a pistol in its original configuration and therefore subject to those limitations. But the sling helps and is a good interim solution until I can put an underfold stock on it, like tihs Photoshop mock-up:

Plus, WASR-10s are assembled/922r modified at Century and their work has not been stellar in the past. Dracos come into this country as built as they are pistols and therefore do not fall under 922r...

Cheers! M2

 

[KAK]

Im thinking that the draco pistol would be a very cool gun just to have. Apparently since they dont need to be 922 compliant they are better than the rifles.

Hell the price is right. Another similar weapon would be the Kel Tec PLR-16 which would be the same price considering that I already have mags for it and that I would have to buy new ones for the draco.

The Draco is way cooler though.

 

[jordanmills]

The SUB is pretty nifty. I have one. But unless you REALLY needed mag compatibility with your Glock or whatever, I'd go with a rifle caliber carbine.

 

[WadeP]

If you really need something to carry around concealed with you to supplement your pistol, then get the Sub2k. But if you don't have a real fighting rifle, you need one so get the AK. When you really need a rifle, nothing else will do. Except go to the mall or park in your backpack, I can't think of anything that the Sub2k will do that the AK won't do better. And unless you intend to SBR it, there's no reason to get the Draco because it's inferior to both of them.

 

[M. Sage]

AK underfolder folds up pretty short. Not as short as the Sub2000, and probably not as light, but you can fit it into "unlikely" containers.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Cheap vehicle gun? How about one of the various Keltec Su16 or whatever they're called AR type folding guns. They can be folded so their compact, they use AR mags which are cheap, etc. Also, as far as AK's go, you might give some serious thought to an actual Saiga AK. The standard base model is only ~$350-400, and they are much better quality than the average WASR. The Romanian WASR's are real hit or miss as they are parts guns built off random surplus parts kits, so you are basically buying a used gun. If you do consider a WASR, make sure you can really look them over and try to make sure there aren't any real obvious problem areas (canted front sight, misaligned "gas block", etc), because you can occasionally find a pretty decent one.

Honestly, as cool as the idea may sound with ammo/mag compatibility with your sidearm, pistol caliber carbines are exactly that........PISTOL caliber carbines. If you need a carbine, most likely you want/need more firepower. You might as well get something chambered in an actual rifle round as there will be a pretty drastic power difference.

 

[M. Sage]

Yeah, the Kel-Tec SU16. They're alright, not nearly as good as an AR of course. I'd put 'em a notch above the Mini-14.

The A and CA will fold smaller, but can't be fired folded. The C can be fired folded, but won't be quite as short. The B gets pretty small, but the barrel is awful light.

 

[TheDan]

One thing to note on the Draco is that it's a "pistol". Can't carry it in your briefcase unless you have a CHL and even then is subject to restrictions in 46.035. Sub2000 you don't have to worry about that since its a "rifle".

 

[The Lox]

Yep, the Draco would be a better choice for a vehicle weapon. I picked one up last week and maybe down the road will SBR it...

It is easy to add some parachord to serve as a rear sling point, instructions area available through a search of the Internet or just PM me. It helps stabilize the weapon when shooting, it's still a pistol in its original configuration and therefore subject to those limitations. But the sling helps and is a good interim solution until I can put an underfold stock on it, like tihs Photoshop mock-up:

Plus, WASR-10s are assembled/922r modified at Century and their work has not been stellar in the past. Dracos come into this country as built as they are pistols and therefore do not fall under 922r...

Cheers! M2

Do you have to change the rear trunion to run the underfolding stock? I am really wanting to SBR my Draco and I never really thought about putting an underfolder on it until now. That seems like it would be the best of both worlds. I am not a fan of side folders. You can PM me the info if you want..

 

[majormadmax]

The rear trunnion on mine is for an underfold...

...all I think I'd have to do is drill out the holes and install the stock!

Cheers! M2

 

[The Lox]

Roger that..I just checked mine and unfortunately it is not. Mine is smooth all the way around. I might have to look into the side folder or an ACE or something like that. My personal preference would be for one of the Tapco AR 15 style stocks, which I think would also include changing the rear trunion..

 

[M. Sage]

The rear trunnion on mine is for an underfold...

...all I think I'd have to do is drill out the holes and install the stock!

Cheers! M2

Wow... BATFE could be very interested in that if they saw it...

 

[majormadmax]

Wow... BATFE could be very interested in that if they saw it...

How so? It's a classified as a pistol based on barrel length and lack of a stock basically, the rear trunnion does not automatically propel it into SBR status.

A short barreled rifle as defined in US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921 is as follows...

(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Plus, the trunnions are separate parts from the receiver.

So I am curious as to why you made that comment...

Cheers! M2

 

[M. Sage]

How so? It's a classified as a pistol based on barrel length and lack of a stock basically, the rear trunnion does not automatically propel it into SBR status.

A short barreled rifle as defined in US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921 is as follows...

(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Plus, the trunnions are separate parts from the receiver.

So I am curious as to why you made that comment...

Cheers! M2

Ever heard of "constructive possession"? They're not fond of pistols being sold that are easily/readily convertible to SBRs. I'm actually very surprised that they would let something like that be sold, usually you need to go with a special pistol block to avoid their wrath. IMO you're a lucky SOB. I really want an AK SBR, and that one would be easy to do.

Important: If you do go SBR route with it, make sure you don't buy the stock parts BEFORE doing the Form 4, even if you don't install them. BATFE (and the courts, since somehow BATFE can tell judges how it is) considers a gun + conversion parts to be the same as a converted firearm.

When you do get your Form 4 approved, though... http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16788&cat=251&page=2

 

[The Lox]

Ever heard of "constructive possession"? They're not fond of pistols being sold that are easily/readily convertible to SBRs. I'm actually very surprised that they would let something like that be sold, usually you need to go with a special pistol block to avoid their wrath. IMO you're a lucky SOB. I really want an AK SBR, and that one would be easy to do.

Important: If you do go SBR route with it, make sure you don't buy the stock parts BEFORE doing the Form 4, even if you don't install them. BATFE (and the courts, since somehow BATFE can tell judges how it is) considers a gun + conversion parts to be the same as a converted firearm.

When you do get your Form 4 approved, though... K-Var Corp. ™

Calm down, there are thousands of these pistols available in the US. I have one, and I know a handful of people that have them too.

I have an AR pistol with a 14.5" barrel, and I also own multiple AR rifles. How easy would it be for me to pull the buffer tube off one of those and make an SBR? Pretty easy and would take about 5 minutes. Now does that mean I have constructive intent? Nope.

Much to do about nothing as far as I am concerned...

 

[Texan2]

I know several people who own those AK pistols, its never been an issue for any of them. they sell them at numerous gun shops I have been to. I intend to pick one up myself. J&G and other wholesalers have specials onthem from time to time.