Too much crimp?

[SQLGeek]

This is what my 200gr Berry's plated .45 bullets look like after I broke my first batch of completed rounds down.

Completed cartridge on the left. New bullet in the middle and pulled bullet on the right.

Is this normal? Too much crimp? Not enough mouth expansion?

The plating does not appear to be cut.

 

[Vaquero]

Is the powder charge light?
Mid range?
Heavy?

If it's less than heavy, I'd proceed and adjust accordingly.
If you started on the heavy charge end, I'd back of the crimp.

 

[SQLGeek]

I'm on the light side right now. These were pulled because they were too light to cycle the gun at all (4.2 gr HP-38). I've loaded a couple more with the same die settings but higher charges that have run better. The last batch I loaded at 5.0 gr cycled fine but were really sooty so I wanted to bump the charge a bit more.

The latest batch I'm getting ready to load is still light, 5.4gr HP-38 but should run well. Before noticing this, I did expand the case mouth a bit more but have left the crimp the same.

 

[Vaquero]

Crimp is fine then. It doesn't take much to hold the bullet under recoil. The plating is very thin. Some deforming is expected, as is with a lead cast bullet. Just watch for high pressure signs, but you're already seeing low pressure signs. As always with reloading, proceed with caution.
Don't bell the case mouth more than necessary to just start the base of the bullet without shaving. Overworked brass fails sooner.

 

[SQLGeek]

OK, thank you, Vaq. I'm only doing small batches until I settle on a load I like for my M&P. If I can get just above the low pressure signs and still knock down the steel plates at my club, I'm happy. I tried to crimp just enough to get the rounds to reliably chamber. Sounds like I'm ok.

 

[Vaquero]

OK, thank you, Vaq. I'm only doing small batches until I settle on a load I like for my M&P. If I can get just above the low pressure signs and still knock down the steel plates at my club, I'm happy. I tried to crimp just enough to get the rounds to reliably chamber. Sounds like I'm ok.

It sounds like you're being observant and doing things on the cautious side of the scale. Thats exactly how it should be approached. Just my opinion.

 

[jrbfishn]

Looks like you are doing fine. And getting good advice to boot. Have fun.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[TexMex247]

Find yourself some 200 gr semi wadcutters and you will never want to put any other bullet through your 45. My favorite by far is the Hornady combat target. They are Lazer accurate. Those seem like an odd profile of bullet for your 45 acp. Maybe they are sized for the 45 Colt at .452-.453", that may also explain why the crimp looks heavy even when it's not.

 

[SQLGeek]

They are an odd bullet but they're sized at .452 like the rest of the Berry's .45 caliber bullets they have listed under their .45 ACP section. Seems many use them in .45 ACP.

From what I understand, .452 is what I want in plated or lead for .45 ACP. That would help explain the crimp though. Thanks for that.

I haven't started branching out to other bullets yet

 

[robertc1024]

Crimping is weird. I loaded up a batch of .44 mags with no cannelure, and the bullets walked out. Since then, any high pressure pistol round only gets bullets with a cannelure. Wadcutters need a bunch of crimp. I never crimp rifle rounds.

 

[TexMex247]

Most people stick with the 230 gr ball rounds but I never had as much success with them as the 200 swc. Also, although they can be a little messy, don't shy away from lead bullets for the acp unless you have polygonal rifling. The low velocity of the acp makes it well suited to run lead and they are plenty accurate. Acme coated are another affordable option. Kinda the best of both worlds.

 

[SQLGeek]

Most people stick with the 230 gr ball rounds

That is really what I should have started out with but I get bored with conventional stuff pretty easily it seems. I had to pick something a little more challenging so I chose these. They gave me fits when I first started as I had to seat them pretty deep to get them to feed reliably in my M&P 45.

I'm not opposed to lead and this pistol doesn't have polygonal rifling so good to go there.

I just about have this load dialed in for function. Would like to get a chrono and see what they are running at to know. Haven't check their accuracy yet either but my goal was primarily a cheaper plinker. If I get that with this load, I'll be happy.

Now that I'm into a couple of .357s, my next load will be either .38 or .357. I was looking at tooling up for that when the 'Rona stupidity kicked off.

 

[TexMex247]

Probably worthy of another thread but I recommend Everglades 158gr plated bullets for your 38/357 needs. They can still be had for about 9 cents each shipped but only if you order 3k at a time.

 

[SQLGeek]

So this had been gnawing on me for a while. I finally got my press setup again and started over setting up my dies.

Realized that crimping to 0.470" was too much.

Reworked everything and got the crimp to 0.473". Dummy plunked fine. Did 5 dummies and they all chambered. Pulled the bullets and no deformation.

Original load on the left, new bullet middle and freshly loaded and pulled bullet on the right.

I'm happy now. Just need to get the powder charge dialed in.

 

[Deavis]

So this had been gnawing on me for a while. I finally got my press setup again and started over setting up my dies.

Realized that crimping to 0.470" was too much.

Reworked everything and got the crimp to 0.473". Dummy plunked fine. Did 5 dummies and they all chambered. Pulled the bullets and no deformation.

Original load on the left, new bullet middle and freshly loaded and pulled bullet on the right.

I'm happy now. Just need to get the powder charge dialed in.

View attachment 217450

Nothing wrong with your 470 crimp, it is fine. 473 is the max spec, which means you should not be over it. Taper crimp should be 3 to 5 thou under that spec for the best feeding. Remember with a taper crimp, crimp is for feed and neck tension is for holding the bullet.

Your charge is light for a 200gr bullet and 231 is fairly dirty in such low pressure loads like 45Auto.

 

[SQLGeek]

I wasn't happy with the bullet deformation on the .470" crimped rounds. If I have issues with .473", I'll bring it down a touch more.

I am still finding the sweet spot with the powder charge, going to load up some in 5.2, 5.4 and 5.6 and and see how they work.

I'm also getting a pound of BE 86 for 357 magnum so I'll try that in .45 and see how I like it.

 

[popper]

Start with a light crimp, push nose against hard surface, if it doesn't move, good enough. Neck tension is the important number!! Too much crimp (on mouth HS case) and it will chamber deep with an opportunity to pinch in the chamber/bore and raise pressure. Cases and chambers are different so I don't care what the 'spec' says.

 

[SQLGeek]

I checked all of the dummies for setback after multiple chamberings and pushed one against the bench and concrete floor. No setback anywhere.

 

[Dave68]

I don’t like to see crimp lines on plated bullets either. I’m always concerned about cracking the copper plating.

 

[Deavis]

I don’t like to see crimp lines on plated bullets either. I’m always concerned about cracking the copper plating.

You wont break Berrys plating with anything under 6 thousandths of taper crimp. They do a good job and their copper is soft enough to take a crimp and not crack.