Out of state license firearm purchase

[xkon]

Just moved into TX from the North East. I have not been able to get a TX license as of yet given the COVID situation. Until I can get it, I believe I won't be able to purchase handguns, however can I purchase long guns with an out of state license?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Welcome to the Forum!

Interesting screen name....

 

[Renegade]

Just moved into TX from the North East. I have not been able to get a TX license as of yet given the COVID situation. Until I can get it, I believe I won't be able to purchase handguns, however can I purchase long guns with an out of state license?

You can purchase as a resident using your out of state ID and a govt issued document showing residency (water bill, utility bill, hunting license, W-2, etc).

 

[Coiled]

Interesting screen name....

Yeah it is. And, he's badly indoctrinated and did ZERO homework.

 

[jrbfishn]

Use a hunting/fishing license.
Per ATF, water and utility bills are not acceptable.

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[Renegade]

Per ATF, water and utility bills are not acceptable.

Wrong.

ATF has covered this ad naseum in the FFL newsletters. A combination of govt issued documents to establish identity and residence may be used. it is even written into the instructions on the 4473.

 

[jrbfishn]

Yes, I know the instructions.
I sold guns for an FFL and talked to ATF agents on several occasions.
Utilities are not government agencies. Their bills are not government issued.
Although water bills are frequently paid to city agencies, they are also ran by private agencies.
TPW requires, at least supposedly, a state issued ID to purchase and are issued a bonifide government agency through a proxy, such as Academy or Walmart. The same for vehicle registration. Through the county with approved state ID.
YMMV. I know you are much smarter than me. Have a nice day.

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[cycleguy2300]

Yes, I know the instructions.
I sold guns for an FFL and talked to ATF agents on several occasions.
Utilities are not government agencies. Their bills are not government issued.
Although water bills are frequently paid to city agencies, they are also ran by private agencies.
TPW requires, at least supposedly, a state issued ID to purchase and are issued a bonifide government agency through a proxy, such as Academy or Walmart. The same for vehicle registration. Through the county with approved state ID.
YMMV. I know you are much smarter than me. Have a nice day.

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Some utilities are... some are not.

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[Renegade]

Yes, I know the instructions.
I sold guns for an FFL and talked to ATF agents on several occasions.
Utilities are not government agencies. Their bills are not government issued.
Although water bills are frequently paid to city agencies, they are also ran by private agencies.
TPW requires, at least supposedly, a state issued ID to purchase and are issued a bonifide government agency through a proxy, such as Academy or Walmart. The same for vehicle registration. Through the county with approved state ID.
YMMV. I know you are much smarter than me. Have a nice day.

If you know the instructions you should read them. They do not have to be "government agencies". The law is clear and what constitutes a valid Govt issued document. Yes my co-op water LLC is not valid nor is my co-op electric bill. Does not mean the ones for OP are not. Maybe they are, maybe not. I was giving him a sample of possible valid docs, not claiming ALL are valid.

 

[jrbfishn]

Some utilities are... some are not.

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Some are administered by the city government and some are contracted. That is what I said. Every ATF investigator, auditor and FFL investigative officer I have personally talked to has stated that water bills do not qualify for proof of residence.

If you know the instructions you should read them. They do not have to be "government agencies". The law is clear and what constitutes a valid Govt issued document. Yes my co-op water LLC is not valid nor is my co-op electric bill. Does not mean the ones for OP are not. Maybe they are, maybe not. I was giving him a sample of possible valid docs, not claiming ALL are valid.

I have read them many times as well as read them TO many customers to make sure the understood them.
What I tried to convey is what the ATF has stated TO ME IN PERSON what is acceptable and what is not on more than one occasion. That is my experience.
You think what you want.
Personally, I would not bet on your interpretation of the regulations. Or mine for that matter or I would not have bothered asking them. They were the ones that were going to put me in jail if I, or you, were wrong.
So what either of us think really does not matter much, does it?

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[jordanmills]

Yes, I know the instructions.
I sold guns for an FFL and talked to ATF agents on several occasions.
Utilities are not government agencies. Their bills are not government issued.
Although water bills are frequently paid to city agencies, they are also ran by private agencies.
TPW requires, at least supposedly, a state issued ID to purchase and are issued a bonifide government agency through a proxy, such as Academy or Walmart. The same for vehicle registration. Through the county with approved state ID.
YMMV. I know you are much smarter than me. Have a nice day.

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The idea is that the utility bill demonstrates residency, not identity. The out of state license demonstrates the identity of the name on the utility bill.

But it looks like you spoke to that in the post you made while I was typing that.

 

[jordanmills]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-form-identification-must-licensee-obtain-transferee-firearm

This addresses hunting licenses, but not much else.

 

[Renegade]

I have read them many times as well as read them TO many customers to make sure the understood them. What I tried to convey is what the ATF has stated TO ME IN PERSON what is acceptable and what is not on more than one occasion. That is my experience

Your personal experience certainly falls in "Cool Story Bro" territory but is irrelevant since he is not buying from you. Any FFL in business knows verbal stories from ATF officers are garbage and all what matters is what you have writing. On this issue ATF has muttiple documents in writing stating what a valid Govt issued doc is.

What I tried to convey is what the ATF has stated TO ME IN PERSON what is acceptable and what is not on more than one occasion. That is my experience.

And what I am conveying is in ATF in newsletters, Rulings and Seminars ATF has explained what a valid govt issued ID is, and all of the docs I mentioned can qualify. Whether the FFL OP wants to buy from will accept them is a different manner. But it gives OP a working set of documents to try. Library Cards can qualify. My City of Plano issued Rec ID card qualified.

They were the ones that were going to put me in jail if I, or you, were wrong.

Errors on 4473 are administrative errors not criminal acts. Nobody is going to jail even if you completely OMIT the ID section on a 4473. Your perfect record of being wrong is unbroken.

 

[jrbfishn]

And I have on several occasions used exactly that.
A valid out of state ID, a Texas vehicle registration or TPW license to show current Texas residence and sell a firearm. The rules do not state the ID has to be the state purchased in.
As long as the ID is valid in the state of purchase at the time of purchase it is valid ID for the form per the ATF people I have talked to. After several ATF audits and none of my forms flagged for correction, I feel fairly confident. However, that does not mean every FFL will do that.
The point I was trying to convey is this. You have to register your vehicle in Texas anyway. Do it and that is your valid proof of residence. Failing that, a $25 TPW permit will suffice and is easy to get. With a water bill, or any other docs that show 30 days residency like mail to you at the same Texas address, that the ATF will not accept.
Too easy, done deal.

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[jrbfishn]

Your personal experience certainly falls in "Cool Story Bro" territory but is irrelevant since he is not buying from you. Any FFL in business knows verbal stories from ATF officers are garbage and all what matters is what you have writing. On this issue ATF has muttiple documents in writing stating what a valid Govt issued doc is.



And what I am conveying is in ATF in newsletters, Rulings and Seminars ATF has explained what a valid govt issued ID is, and all of the docs I mentioned can qualify. Whether the FFL OP wants to buy from will accept them is a different manner. But it gives OP a working set of documents to try. Library Cards can qualify. My City of Plano issued Rec ID card qualified.

Goody for you.
I also stated YMMV.
Go argue with yourself now.

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[Renegade]

With a water bill, or any other docs that show 30 days residency like mail to you at the same Texas address, that the ATF will not accept.

Dude ATF has put it in writing these docs valid if they meet Govt issued criteria.

 

[45tex]

I think the FNGs start off with these questions just to fan the flames.
Welcome to the forum

 

[jrbfishn]

Dude ATF has put it in writing these docs valid if they meet Govt issued criteria.

So you say.
I'll tell you what you do. Go to the San Antonio and Ft Worth ATF offices and tell THEM that. They are the ones that will ruin someone's life for following your advice. Okey dokey???

You just really seem to have a need to prove me wrong or yourself right. Have you thought about professional help?

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[Renegade]

You just really seem to have a need to prove me wrong or yourself right

Projection at its finest.

You are the one who keeps coming back and telling us you are the one who is right. You just cannot let it go. You are not even an FFL, but somehow you are an expert on ID. Now I am supposed to talk to ATF in San Antonio or Ft Worth? ROFL.

They are the ones that will ruin someone's life for following your advice. Okey dokey???

I am not giving advice. I gave the OP a list of documents that might be acceptable as govt issued in addition to his out of state DL. As I ALREADY stated, only the selling FFL will decide whether to accept them or not. No harm, no foul. His life cannot be "ruined" by asking an FFL what he will accept or not.

 

[jrbfishn]

No, but using the wrong ones will ruin it.
I am not an FFL, but have acted as the FFL rep for 2 different Walmarts and been the Responsible Person for one of them. Sold guns under an FFL at walmart for almost 20 years and talked to and interacted acted with them many times. I was also the one that straightened out their A&D books and records after previous RPs screwed them up and lost books and forms. This was from a failed audit of previous RPs. When I was done, they were very happy.
So yeah, just a tiny bit of experience as an FFL.

As far as my advice in this or any other thread, or forum or real life for that matter, anyone that wishes is free to disregard it at anytime. No skin off me. I am not the one that will pay for it. Not my decision. It is theirs. Real simple.
Anyone that thinks I don't know anything at all, well, that is their choice too.
We can't all be as smart as you.

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