Should the police be defunded/dismantled
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jordanmills
TGT Addict
Blanket? All of them? Nope.
Where they're totally corrupt from the top down and you're talking about displacing them with a trustworthy agency? That's probably the only solution in that case.
Where they're totally corrupt from the top down and you're talking about displacing them with a trustworthy agency? That's probably the only solution in that case.
Some departments need the herd thinned of bad cops.
Some departments are fine, it just the political influences from the mayor and city councils that are ruining them.
Most departments need to look at how they are training.
Departments that are trending towards a military style force, need to be seriously reworked. Rolling up an a MRAP is just bullshit. Using SWAT should be more rare than it has become. If those guys wanted to be special forces, they can join the military.
Some departments are fine, it just the political influences from the mayor and city councils that are ruining them.
Most departments need to look at how they are training.
Departments that are trending towards a military style force, need to be seriously reworked. Rolling up an a MRAP is just bullshit. Using SWAT should be more rare than it has become. If those guys wanted to be special forces, they can join the military.
Your poll doesn’t include the most obvious answer which is it depends.
If you want to have a serious conversation, then start by acknowledging that yes, Mabel, there are both individual officers and entire agencies that should be replaced due to corruption, inefficiency, ineptness, and other other reasons that have resulted in not just the erosion of, but the total loss of public trust in those people and organizations.
The US military had lost the public trust by the end of Vietnam. It took more than a decade of change and another decade of failure, learning, more change, small successes, and finally Desert Storm to regain that trust and return to an organization revered by the public for honesty and integrity.
To paraphrase Anheiser-Busch, with great power comes even greater responsibility. That responsibility to ruthlessly and zealously only accept conduct that is above reproach.
If you want to have a serious conversation, then start by acknowledging that yes, Mabel, there are both individual officers and entire agencies that should be replaced due to corruption, inefficiency, ineptness, and other other reasons that have resulted in not just the erosion of, but the total loss of public trust in those people and organizations.
The US military had lost the public trust by the end of Vietnam. It took more than a decade of change and another decade of failure, learning, more change, small successes, and finally Desert Storm to regain that trust and return to an organization revered by the public for honesty and integrity.
To paraphrase Anheiser-Busch, with great power comes even greater responsibility. That responsibility to ruthlessly and zealously only accept conduct that is above reproach.
I don't think that the current police structure and culture would have been a part of what the founders intended even though I know some departments will point to their founding... I think the general difference in style between police and sheriffs that is pretty obvious even today points to that system probably being better / wiser.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080517082302/http://www.ppdonline.org/hq_history.php
http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/Police/HistoryPoliceDepartment.aspx
https://web.archive.org/web/20080517082302/http://www.ppdonline.org/hq_history.php
http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/Police/HistoryPoliceDepartment.aspx
Police should not report to politicians, or be under politicians. They also should have good checks and balances to verify validity of any actions that occur. They should be required to uphold the law, but still stand accountable by the law.
seeker_two
My posts don't count....
I would like to see all PDs fall under the direct authority of the county sheriff instead of the city councils. That would put more accountability in the right place....easier to vote out a bad sheriff than a bad city council.
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Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
If they don’t report to elected officials, then how would they be a public agency?
Part of the problem is state/local elected officials abdicating accountability for the executive branch agencies and agents acting on their behalf.
I made a slight adjustment to your comment; hope it works for us.
And part of the problem is that we vote the local/state government "executives" to do the work we need done. We need to vote better, it seems. Maybe get more involved come election time?
Generally speaking, I have no problems with elected officials making policy changes their constituents elected them to make. The ballot box is my recourse.
Generally speaking, I’m also against knee-jerk reactionary decisions. These are not mutually exclusive positions to hold.
All local PDs should be dismantled, most state and federal PDs as well. County Sheriffs will be elected and assemble peace officers for their respective counties. If they are held to the will of the vote things change quite a bit. The movement towards municipal police forces started in the last half of the 20th century and it's lead to the militarization of the police. That's a bad thing. Police forces do not need APCs and fucking tanks but they have them.
Let's bring law enforcement back to it's local roots.
Let's bring law enforcement back to it's local roots.
I am all for a well armed society and policing themselves, but there would still need to be a nonpartisan investigative source. I certainly wouldn't want the formations of lynch mobs.
Basically, out where I live, if the sheriff shows up within a half hour, that's fast. So the adage, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" certainly comes into bear.
It's a tough call, but I'm afraid that good intentions have a way of turning out badly. Turf wars, extortion and injustice concerns me. I know it's not perfect now, but reformed would sound better to me than dismantled. I would certainly be open to honest suggestions.
Basically, out where I live, if the sheriff shows up within a half hour, that's fast. So the adage, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" certainly comes into bear.
It's a tough call, but I'm afraid that good intentions have a way of turning out badly. Turf wars, extortion and injustice concerns me. I know it's not perfect now, but reformed would sound better to me than dismantled. I would certainly be open to honest suggestions.
It’s not like police show up in time in town... they clean up. Slim them down if you keep them to an investigative and evidence-preservation force, end financial incentives for stuff like speeding tickets, and let the sheriff deal with most things. Also there needs to be a recall option even for a sheriff.
Axxe55
Retiretgtshit stirrer
I just can't see using a simple yes or no answer for a question like this. It just goes way deeper, and is way more complex than that.
First question is, is LE necessary? Absolutely.
Second question, what would happen if they were defunded and debanded? Would the communities be better off? That's a difficult one to answer. We could speculate and ponder on that one for days. Personally, I don't have a clue, since it could ,ake things better, or it could make things worse.
IMO, such questions like this are arising because of some events that involve LE officers and their actions towards the citizens. Especially like those leading to the death of George Floyd. People are angry and getting sick and tired of the ways of some LE officers.
People are getting tired of LE officers treating citizens like they are the enemy. They have forgotten that they work for us, the community. Their salaries come from our taxes. In what other line of work, or career field, if an employee treated their employer with disrespect, would still be employed? Not very many that I know of. But, it happens every day, and we allow it to happen. We have some thought process that we need them, and that they are the lesser of two evils.
Many departments are becoming way too militarized and too tactical. Too many officers in small departments dress and look like they are going to a SWAT convention! Too many small departments are getting APC's. Seriously? Our former sheriff requested from the commissioners board that he wanted to obtain two APC's for our county sheriff's department. They declined him, twice. Total population in our county is well under 30K, with very, very little serious or violent crimes. So why would we need an APC, let alone two of them? For practical purposes, I see no reason whatsoever. Other than to further militarize the sheriff's department.
I think many departments need to be reformed, and restructered. There needs to be more training in how these officers treat the citizens in their communities. They need to put back the emphasis on "to protect and serve" again. And it not just be a slogan on the sides of patrol vehicles. They need to be reminded that they are representatives of our communities and serve in the capacity to enforce our laws of society, and not making up things as they go along.
Maybe there needs to be a better screening process on officers who get hired as LE officers. Maybe departments need officers badly enough, that they are hiring those who are marginal at best for beig in a job like LE, and when they become a problem, the department shuffles them off on another department, them also knowing that the officer has issues. It takes a certain person to be in LE. Not everyone is suited mentally for the stresses and the things that go with being a LE officer. I think personally, and I know this from past experience, it's better to have a few very qualified, and experienced people, and be shorthanded, or understaffed, that to have a full staff of less than qualified individuals.
I do know things need to change. These protests, (not the rioting and looting, but the legitimate protests.) are pointing a glaring finger at what people are seeing and getting tired of. Floyd's death, was very tragic and should never have happened, but maybe, it's the event that could effect change in the ways of LE and how they interact with the community.
First question is, is LE necessary? Absolutely.
Second question, what would happen if they were defunded and debanded? Would the communities be better off? That's a difficult one to answer. We could speculate and ponder on that one for days. Personally, I don't have a clue, since it could ,ake things better, or it could make things worse.
IMO, such questions like this are arising because of some events that involve LE officers and their actions towards the citizens. Especially like those leading to the death of George Floyd. People are angry and getting sick and tired of the ways of some LE officers.
People are getting tired of LE officers treating citizens like they are the enemy. They have forgotten that they work for us, the community. Their salaries come from our taxes. In what other line of work, or career field, if an employee treated their employer with disrespect, would still be employed? Not very many that I know of. But, it happens every day, and we allow it to happen. We have some thought process that we need them, and that they are the lesser of two evils.
Many departments are becoming way too militarized and too tactical. Too many officers in small departments dress and look like they are going to a SWAT convention! Too many small departments are getting APC's. Seriously? Our former sheriff requested from the commissioners board that he wanted to obtain two APC's for our county sheriff's department. They declined him, twice. Total population in our county is well under 30K, with very, very little serious or violent crimes. So why would we need an APC, let alone two of them? For practical purposes, I see no reason whatsoever. Other than to further militarize the sheriff's department.
I think many departments need to be reformed, and restructered. There needs to be more training in how these officers treat the citizens in their communities. They need to put back the emphasis on "to protect and serve" again. And it not just be a slogan on the sides of patrol vehicles. They need to be reminded that they are representatives of our communities and serve in the capacity to enforce our laws of society, and not making up things as they go along.
Maybe there needs to be a better screening process on officers who get hired as LE officers. Maybe departments need officers badly enough, that they are hiring those who are marginal at best for beig in a job like LE, and when they become a problem, the department shuffles them off on another department, them also knowing that the officer has issues. It takes a certain person to be in LE. Not everyone is suited mentally for the stresses and the things that go with being a LE officer. I think personally, and I know this from past experience, it's better to have a few very qualified, and experienced people, and be shorthanded, or understaffed, that to have a full staff of less than qualified individuals.
I do know things need to change. These protests, (not the rioting and looting, but the legitimate protests.) are pointing a glaring finger at what people are seeing and getting tired of. Floyd's death, was very tragic and should never have happened, but maybe, it's the event that could effect change in the ways of LE and how they interact with the community.
I remember the first pictures I saw of the Covington kid (Nick Sandmann). My first reaction was "what a smug little bastard". It wasn't long until I saw that what brought on that first reaction was intentional. It was framed that way.
Now I'm not defending the death of George Floyd, but I have to wonder what brought on such a reaction by the police. What didn't I see beforehand? What interaction brought about such a horrible ending? Certainly like ordinary people, there are many good, and some bad, and cops are people too.
I was watching Louder With Crowder live last night, and they were watching CNN live. I found it odd, but not surprising, that on CNN they were talking about how the crowd was peaceful (NYC I believe) in an area they were reporting from, then all the sudden you can here explosions. CNN cut away and didn't show what was happening. After quite some time, CNN started showing Atlanta, peaceful of course and no explosions.
Of course, Steven Crowder brought up the point of what CNN was doing.
So I have to wonder, even with homemade videos of what appears to be injustices. What am I not seeing? What led up to what is being shown? Is what I'm seeing being framed to get the preferable reaction?
Now I'm not defending the death of George Floyd, but I have to wonder what brought on such a reaction by the police. What didn't I see beforehand? What interaction brought about such a horrible ending? Certainly like ordinary people, there are many good, and some bad, and cops are people too.
I was watching Louder With Crowder live last night, and they were watching CNN live. I found it odd, but not surprising, that on CNN they were talking about how the crowd was peaceful (NYC I believe) in an area they were reporting from, then all the sudden you can here explosions. CNN cut away and didn't show what was happening. After quite some time, CNN started showing Atlanta, peaceful of course and no explosions.
Of course, Steven Crowder brought up the point of what CNN was doing.
So I have to wonder, even with homemade videos of what appears to be injustices. What am I not seeing? What led up to what is being shown? Is what I'm seeing being framed to get the preferable reaction?
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Every cop in the country should burn a couple of weeks of sick time. Go get a covid test and self quarantine for two weeks.
All of this bullshit going on would self correct and those assholes calling for defunding PDs would see exactly what that looks like
All of this bullshit going on would self correct and those assholes calling for defunding PDs would see exactly what that looks like
