My ever evolving Charter Arms Undercover.

[Ingramite]

We used to do a lot of stuff that curdles the urine of todays Techno-Twerps.

Mexican carry, bobbing hammers, pinning grip safeties, hair triggers, sawed off barrels, Fitz jobs. Even with all that "careless activity" on my resume I refuse to carry today's Striker Fired Safety Pistols. Maybe I'm just one internet post shy of being convinced.

 

[Moonpie]

Where did you find one in stock, and when can I shoot it?

Where did I find it?
Sorry Bud. Top secret info. If I told you I'd have to kill ya.
May as well ask me where the secret fishing hole is. LoL.

When can you shoot it?
Whenever you drag that lazy carcass of yours out to a range day. Bring boolits.

 

[45tex]

Always amazed to read of folks that will want to fight over mentioning the 1911's ancient technology. Yet somehow believe revolvers "need" to have their hammer spurs cut off to be any good.
Revolvers functioned quite well long before any of us posting here functioned at all. None of your ideas are new. If you must remove the hammer spur, consider more training. If you still want the hammer spur removed, buy a gun that was engineered to function that way.
If you want to remove the trigger guard you are not smart enough to have a gun.

 

[satx78247]

This thread inspired me to get off my dead arse and go find me a CA.32 Professional.
So I did.
Meet the newest member of the family.
View attachment 222400

Moonpie,

PURTY THANG.
OK. How does it shoot??
(I've not even ever seen one.)

yours, satx

 

[zackmars]

We can argue over the fitz all day, but what it comes down to is that nobody does that (removing the trigger guard) despite the explosion in firearms training and knowledge.

We know better than that now. We know that making your firearm inherently less safe isn't going to improve your chances in a violent encounter.

The Fitzgerald special is a neat historical cornerstone in the world of self defense pistols. Nothing more

 

[satx78247]

We can argue over the fitz all day, but what it comes down to is that nobody does that (removing the trigger guard) despite the explosion in firearms training and knowledge.

We know better than that now. We know that making your firearm inherently less safe isn't going to improve your chances in a violent encounter.

The Fitzgerald special is a neat historical cornerstone in the world of self defense pistols. Nothing more

zackmars,

I certainly agree that that is your opinion BUT that is ALL that it is: OPINION.
(When it comes to opinions, I'll take Bill Jordan's & a lot of famous Texas Rangers opinions over anyone here.)

I will admit that IF you are a careless/clumsy/unthinking person a FITZ can be hazardous but so can cars/trucks/chainsaws/etc..

yours, satx

 

[rmantoo]

We can argue over the fitz all day, but what it comes down to is that nobody does that (removing the trigger guard) despite the explosion in firearms training and knowledge.

We know better than that now. We know that making your firearm inherently less safe isn't going to improve your chances in a violent encounter.

The Fitzgerald special is a neat historical cornerstone in the world of self defense pistols. Nothing more

While I am highly supportive of the maxim, "to each their own," your 5 sentences very aptly describe my feelings about the procedure.

Honestly, it would even be cool to own one as a display piece, the more I think about it.

 

[jar]

We used to do a lot of stuff that curdles the urine of todays Techno-Twerps.

Mexican carry, bobbing hammers, pinning grip safeties, hair triggers, sawed off barrels, Fitz jobs. Even with all that "careless activity" on my resume I refuse to carry today's Striker Fired Safety Pistols. Maybe I'm just one internet post shy of being convinced.

Not to mention the holsters. Stuff like the Aubreys and Buchheimers or the Jordans that Don Hume made.

 

[zackmars]

zackmars,

I certainly agree that that is your opinion BUT that is ALL that it is: OPINION.
(When it comes to opinions, I'll take Bill Jordan's & a lot of famous Texas Rangers opinions over anyone here.)

I will admit that IF you are a careless/clumsy/unthinking person a FITZ can be hazardous but so can cars/trucks/chainsaws/etc..

yours, satx

You are making the assumption that there aren't people who spent a good chunk of thier lives shooting other people still out there.

And today we have a wider base of experience, thanks to the past 20 years of armed conflict, and the fact many of these people are going out there, teaching others, getting their theories proven or disproven... Competition shooting is also far more popular today.

Knowledge is not forgotten. We k ow better than the Fitz now. No one is disrespecting Bill Jordan, or any of the older breed of pistol guys, but they were products of their time

 

[seeker_two]

Forget the Fitz job.....what that gun really needs is a folding trigger....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[robertc1024]

Colt Paterson

 

[Moonpie]

Colt Paterson
View attachment 222500

You stole my post!

 

[satx78247]

A buddy back in SC probably Fitzed as many revolvers as Fitzgerald did. Many times when he would acquire a short barrel S&W or Colt, he would do a Fitz job on it. He always would say that all of the others in the world would be worth more.

Bill Jordan would narrow the trigger guard on his revolvers. I've wanted to do this to my old Model 36 but I just haven't done it yet.

gEEZER, aS YOU ARE very LIKELY AWARE THERE IS A GREAT DEAL MORE HANDWORK DONE

A buddy back in SC probably Fitzed as many revolvers as Fitzgerald did. Many times when he would acquire a short barrel S&W or Colt, he would do a Fitz job on it. He always would say that all of the others in the world would be worth more.

Bill Jordan would narrow the trigger guard on his revolvers. I've wanted to do this to my old Model 36 but I just haven't done it yet.

Geezer,

As you KNOW the smith that you mentioned in the post above, I'm sure you KNOW that there is a LOT more to modifying a handgun into a FITZ than just cutting down the trigger guard.
For starters, the entire interior of the firearm is polished mirror-smooth (Or in some cases "engine turned", IF the gunsmith believed that the "turning" would hold lubricant better & cut friction), the trigger mechanism is rebuilt/restructured, the hammer is usually "bobbed", the action is converted to DAO & a lot of other gunsmith "tricks of the trade".

The famous Lone Wolf Gonzaullas had ALL of his personal weapons modified/personalized/decorated/engraved & only TWO of those (Colt's .45ACP pistols) were done by Fitzgerald.
(The rest of his guns were done by the Master Gunsmith at SAAD, according to the late Ranger CPT Lefty Block.)

My father was a close friend of CPT Gonzaullas since the "wild old" Kilgore oilfield days.
(I used to sit in his lap, when my dad went to visit him but was too little to be much interested in his guns at about age 3 to maybe age 7.)
Note: In the old oilfield lingo, my dad was then called the "Rig Manager", i.e., the Tool-pusher's boss.

yours, satx

Forget the Fitz job.....what that gun really needs is a folding trigger....

View attachment 222498 View attachment 222499

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[satx78247]

A buddy back in SC probably Fitzed as many revolvers as Fitzgerald did. Many times when he would acquire a short barrel S&W or Colt, he would do a Fitz job on it. He always would say that all of the others in the world would be worth more.

Bill Jordan would narrow the trigger guard on his revolvers. I've wanted to do this to my old Model 36 but I just haven't done it yet.

Geezer, As I'm sure you are aware there is a great deal more to having a FITZ built that "cutting down" the trigger guard.

A buddy back in SC probably Fitzed as many revolvers as Fitzgerald did. Many times when he would acquire a short barrel S&W or Colt, he would do a Fitz job on it. He always would say that all of the others in the world would be worth more.

Bill Jordan would narrow the trigger guard on his revolvers. I've wanted to do this to my old Model 36 but I just haven't done it yet.

Geezer,

As you KNOW the smith that you mentioned in the post above, I'm sure you KNOW that there is a LOT more to modifying a handgun into a FITZ than just cutting down the trigger guard.
For starters, the entire interior of the firearm is polished mirror-smooth, the trigger mechanism is rebuilt/restructured, the hammer is often "bobbed", the action is converted to DAO & a lot of other gunsmith "tricks of the trade" are done.
ADDENDA: All of that tedious handwork is why a REAL "FITZ-style" handgun (regardless of which talented smith did the work) was/IS so expensive to have done. = In 2020, I would GUESS that a FITZ done on a handgun by a Master Gunsmith would cost at least 1,000-1,500.oo.)

IF I ever have a K-frame Smith converted, it will be done by an old friend in VA who is a former gunsmith & MSG retired for Third Army AMU & "Tony B" is REALLY good at his handwork. - I asked Tony a year or so ago IF he was still willing to do a revolver for me & he said, "As long as you let me do it at my speed & are in no hurry to have it back."

The famous CPT Lone Wolf Gonzaullas had ALL of his personal weapons modified/personalized/decorated/engraved & only TWO of those (Colt's .45ACP pistols) were done by Fitzgerald.
(The rest of his guns were done by the Master Gunsmith at SAAD, according to the late Senior CPT Lefty Block.)

My father was a close friend of CPT Gonzaullas since the "wild old" Kilgore oilfield days.
(I used to sit in his lap, when my dad went to visit him but was too little to be much interested in his guns at about age 3 to maybe age 7.)
Note: In the old oilfield lingo, my dad was then called the "Rig Manager", i.e., the Tool-pusher's boss.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

We used to do a lot of stuff that curdles the urine of todays Techno-Twerps.

Mexican carry, bobbing hammers, pinning grip safeties, hair triggers, sawed off barrels, Fitz jobs. Even with all that "careless activity" on my resume I refuse to carry today's Striker Fired Safety Pistols. Maybe I'm just one internet post shy of being convinced.

Ingramite,

I'm old enough to remember when a LOT of Police Chiefs, Sheriffs & other government "officials" (including my "big boss", COL A. F. Rael, who was then the Deputy Post Commander) were FEARFUL of a LEO carrying a Colt's GM "cocked & locked", that was considered, "dangerous to do" back in "The Dark Ages", when I was a young officer.

yours, satx

 

[Geezer]

Geezer, As I'm sure you are aware there is a great deal more to having a FITZ built that "cutting down" the trigger guard.

Oh, yeah, I'm aware. My buddy would cut the trigger guard, depending on the barrel he would cut it ogg and relocate the front sight, he would bob the hammer, and polish the moving parts. He never polished the inside of the frame nor changed them to DAO. But, we only shoot DA revolvers in DA only. He also enjoyed taking a square butt K frame and making it a round butt.

I never approved of the Fitz cuts on the guns because they could never be reversed. But, they were his guns and he enjoyed displaying them. He carried a lot of J frame revolvers but never one that he had Fitz'd.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

I'm aware that this post is somewhat "off topic" but it will tell you how attitudes to carrying loaded weapons has changed in US society in my lifetime.

In 1970-72, I was he MP Detachment CDR on a large Army Ammunition Depot in BRD & was assigned "the additional duty" of USD to/from Marks Conversion Agent for the depot.
(This meant that 2 or more days each month that I was required to use my POV, a 1968 VW "Beetle", to pick up & return varied amounts of German/US cash from the US Army Finance Office in Kaiserslautern, which was an >75KM trip. = I transported as little as 15,000 US dollars/German currency to as much as 75,000.oo at any time. - At that time, "Conversion Agents" were issued a M1911 handgun but were PROHIBITED by USAREUR Regulations from having any live US Government ammo for the .45ACP pistol.)
My solution to this "personal security problem" was to carry my personally-owned Model 27 S&W revolver & loaded with my personal/commercial JHP ammo.
(The Depot Commander, who was a BG/0-7, KNEW that I was carrying a concealed revolver but said NOTHING whatever to approve/not approve what I was doing. = I suspect that he thought that carrying that much cash, w/o being armed with a LOADED weapon was "COMPLETELY NUTS", too. Also, I was in charge of issuing hunting permits for the depot & both the Post CDR & I liked to hunt wild boar, so he knew me very well & had seen & fired the revolver on the Post Pistol Range.)

ADDENDA: While I never "had a problem" as a Conversion Agent, during my tenure, less than 60 days as after I rotated back to CONUS to head to RVN, a 1LT Parker from a nearby Army Kaserne was "stopped on the street that led into his Kaserne", the cash-box was taken & he was shot through the head. - As far as I know, the robbers/murderers were NEVER identified.

yours, satx

 

[innominate]

snakebite252,

Over the years that i was a lawman (I'm OLD now & no more bold than I ever was & still alive.), I knew a LOT of Rangers & other "folks who got into a lot of scrapes who had their personal "belly-gun" FITZ-ed.

The BAD thing about it is that UNLESS you ARE Bill Jordan or CPT Gonzaullas, you'll never get the money back that a FITZ SPECIAL costs to have done by a GOOD smith. - IF I have one done, my daughter can sell it after I'm dead & gone.
(Changing a handgun into a FITZ has NEVER been cheap, as you need it "melted", converted to DAO, "dehorned" & a lot of other trick stuff that a REAL gunsmith knows how to do)

Fwiw, I got to shoot Director Jordan's "pet" .357 when he lived in Shreveport & I was at BAFB as the "interim" Chief of Base Security, LONG AGO.- His "pet" was a "cut-down" 3.5 inch .PRE-Model 27.
(Fwiw, being a "OD green GI" on an AF Base is "a trip" for sure.= The USAF does EVERYTHING differently than we "ground-pounders" do.)

yours, satx

I remember taking ~100 mile road trips on hwy 80 to BAFB when I was a kid. We would take the 65ish Galaxie to the BX and load up every month. Back when things were cheaper at the BX/PX.

 

[satx78247]

I remember taking ~100 mile road trips on hwy 80 to BAFB when I was a kid. We would take the 65ish Galaxie to the BX and load up every month. Back when things were cheaper at the BX/PX.

inndominate,

WOW. You can say that again!!

When I was BAFB, I bought a MAMIYA DUAL-LENS REFLEX camera "new but returned for refund", that was still in the sealed box, with the sales receipt attached, for 55.oo.
At that time a nice DLR retailed "downtown" for 2-3X that amount, NOT counting the fact that I got the "returned" camera for 60% off the regular BX price.
You just don't see those SCREAMING bargains anymore at the BX/PX.
(Fyi, I went shopping at the Commissary & PX at Ft Sam Houston this morning & I saw NOTHING that I could not have bought at HEB or COSCO for LESS money. = For example, 2% milk at the Commissary is 94 cents MORE per gallon than the regular retail HEB price is.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

Forget the Fitz job.....what that gun really needs is a folding trigger....

View attachment 222498 View attachment 222499

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Seeker two,

That revolver looks "a bit like" an English-made ADAMS (circa 1880) but not quite the same. - WHICH firm made it, IF you know?

yours, satx