Looking for a rifle.

[JimBobKelley]

I need some help. I want to purchase a rifle to complete my arsenal at home. Here is what I currently have on my restricted budget.

For CCW Glock 30 and Taurus 1911
For home defense and bird hunting Remington 870 express pump action 12 gauge
For small game, squirrels, coke cans the occasional army man etc... and plinking a Mossberg plinkster .22LR

I think that to round out the collection I need something that will go out to 300+ yards if needed. I live around the coast and should another Katrina happen or the SHTF I want the ability to provide and protect me and my own. I have been eyeing a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 not .223. I know it is a bolt action and not semi-auto but that is just fine with me. Not too interested in the AR-15 just yet but not completely opposed. I want .308 to have the "knock down" capability at great distances. Will I ever need it, probably not but then again I will probably not need my G30 but I take it with me at all times.

As you can tell from above I don't buy the most expensive things but the ones that I find will get the job done and keep doing it over and over again. Sometime in the future I will be able to afford nicer things but my son is still very young. I will add that I do not hunt big game mostly dove, quail, duck etc...

I am not stuck on the Remington but the reason why I like it so much is because it is a budget rifle, will get the job done, reliable and just an all around good gun. I can also accessorize it the way I want. Any suggestions on other rifles would be great or advice/experience you have.

J

 

[Bithabus]

In my opinion, the most important firearms for anyone to own are a good pistol and a high capacity semi-auto rifle in a military caliber.

 

[JimBobKelley]

Bithabus, what would you suggest in a .308 semi-auto?

 

[mkburden]

I think a good bolt 308 is a very nice choice, with a quality scope. I guess you could do the ar platform in 308 and have more options to spend more money on.

 

[M. Sage]

.223 will do 300 yards and still be lethal, not an issue. I vote for an AR, they're fun and easy to shoot.

You can do an AK instead if you like. They're also good to 300 yards, despite what the haters say about their accuracy (this is usually from people who can't shoot an AK accurately).

 

[Texas42]

.223 will do 300 yards and still be lethal, not an issue. I vote for an AR, they're fun and easy to shoot.

You can do an AK instead if you like. They're also good to 300 yards, despite what the haters say about their accuracy (this is usually from people who can't shoot an AK accurately).

+1

 

[Texan2]

.223 will do 300 yards and still be lethal, not an issue. I vote for an AR, they're fun and easy to shoot.

You can do an AK instead if you like. They're also good to 300 yards, despite what the haters say about their accuracy (this is usually from people who can't shoot an AK accurately).

+1 7.62x39 and .223/5.56 are military calibers that are plentiful and cheap (by comparison)

 

[blackwater]

In my opinion, the most important firearms for anyone to own are a good pistol and a high capacity semi-auto rifle in a military caliber.

+1

I would look at AR-10s, they are almost identical to a 15 but if you want .308 that is the route I would go, but this is just my opinion

 

[robin303]

Get something that shoots a NATO round.

 

[Texan2]

Get something that shoots a NATO round.

just curious......why a NATO rd.?

 

[M. Sage]

just curious......why a NATO rd.?

NATO = North Atlantic Treaty Organization. We're part of it. Being a mutual defense treaty, there are standard calibers that all countries agree to use. The ones that spring to mind are 5.56x45mm, 7.62x51mm and 9x19mm. I'm sure .50 BMG and other calibers for crew-served are in there, too...

 

[robin303]

NATO = North Atlantic Treaty Organization. We're part of it. Being a mutual defense treaty, there are standard calibers that all countries agree to use. The ones that spring to mind are 5.56x45mm, 7.62x51mm and 9x19mm. I'm sure .50 BMG and other calibers for crew-served are in there, too...

Outstanding M.Sage and thanks.
If the world goes to hell you can always get Nato rounds.

 

[JimBobKelley]

Great advice from everyone. I think I will look into the AR-10, AR-15 platform and see what happens from there. With either I would like to start off basic and then build from there. Any advice with what to start with? For whatever reason I am fascinated with the .308 instead of .223 and I really don't know why. I guess I just do not have enough experience with rifles of any kind.

Jason

 

[Texas1911]

I'm a fan of bolt rifles ... the SPS Tactical is a good choice. However, for rapid engagement in a SHTF situation the AR15 is superior.

I'd rock a 18" midlength in a 1:8 or faster twist, and stick to 75 - 80 grain bullets. Inside of 750 yards you'll be making hits pretty quick with that sort of platform.

 

[M. Sage]

Two reasons to love .223. Cost of shooting and recoil. The rifles and ammo are also much lighter, and finding accessories like magazines for a .223 rifle is a lot easier.

I like an AR15 with a 1/9 twist barrel because I don't ever plan on shooting anything above 70 grains. In fact, 99% of the time, I'll probably be shooting 55 grain ammo, since it's the cheapest and is still plenty effective. I do plan on playing with some 62 grain to see how it goes, though.

I agree with the mid length gas system, 100%. I kind of prefer 16" barrels for their lightness. You're giving up about 100 FPS velocity at the muzzle for that 2" difference, though. If you want a plinker that's longer-range capable, a 20" barrel might be for you.

A good build would be a 20" heavy barrel flat top upper with Magpul MOE handguard, on the lower put a carbine buffer tube with H buffer and a collapsible stock. I've got ARs with both an A2 stock and a collapsible stock, the collapsible is definitely the way to go.

.308 is fine and all, but it takes a bit longer to get back on target, it's heavy, the guns are heavier, it's more expensive all around, etc.

Even if I score a non-critical hit with one of my 55 grain pills at 300 yards, whoever I shot is going to have a lot of trouble pulling together enough control to be able to return fire effectively. At least, that's how I look at it.

 

[ROGER4314]

I'll echo Sage above. In fact, I would have written those exact words. I've fired .308 and .223 in 200 and 600 yard matches for about 7 years. Everything gets more expensive and heavier when you go to 30 caliber and although you get better wind bucking in the larger bullet, the .223 does just fine. For those who say that the .223 is ineffective at 600 yards just hasn't fired the round enough. A man sized target at 600 yards is toast using A2 iron sights and shooting from prone. How much energy does a .223 retain at 600 yards? I darn sure wouldn't want to be hit with it!

In .223, barrel twist rate is absolutely critical! I urge you to go with Sage's recommendation and choose a 1:9 twist. That will shoot 55 and 62 grain bullets very well. Those are the least expensive and most common loads. Other twist rates like 1:8 and 1:7 will limit what bullet weights you can use. For instance, I have a Bushmaster A2 20" with 1:8 twist. At 200 yards, I shot Master level with that rifle using 69 grain bullets. The score was 475 out of 500 as I recall. Using the same rifle at 600 yards, I picked up the wrong ammo (55 grain bullets) and shot the worst match of my life! The 1:8 wouldn't stabilize the 55 grain bullet and it was like using a Daisy BB gun at 600!

The 1:7 twist will handle 70+ grain bullets but they are so long that you may need to single fire them. Shooting 55 grain bullets in a 1:7 twist would not be advised. Remember as the bullet gets heavier, it can't get bigger in diameter so it gets longer. You use a fast twist to stabilize the long bullet but you lose the ability to shoot shorter, lighter bullets effectively.

Hope that helps!

Flash

 

[BG1960]

Let me introduce you to my solution : KLiK

It's a Norinco Hunter. Milled receiver AK in a sporter stock. It's PITA to add a grip, and there isn't much available for it. It takes AK mags and it's way more accurate than I am. Some people are lookin' for a lot of money for them, but I see them go for less than $400 fairly often.

 

[JimBobKelley]

Ok Sage going on your advice for the "build" where would I look for the upper and lower and what is a good manufacturer to buy from? I wish I could just find everything put together for the upper and lower and then add my own optics etc... later. I am very "green" when it comes to anything guns other than pistols. I am on a budget and would like to have this ready for action ASAP. Should I just wait until I can afford everything and then buy or buy the upper now then wait for the lower or just keep looking around places to find a good deal of one already put together?

I may sound a little impatient, that's only because I am.

Jason

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Just another alternative to consider, but AK's in 7.62 x 39 are cheap and plentiful. Think of 7.62 x 39 like a ".308 short". They're large enough to hunt deer and ammo is pretty easy to come by.

I've shot plenty of deer with a .222, but you have to be spot on hitting a vital. If they're moving, or you're shaking a little from the cold, etc., it's hard to get that perfect shot off sometimes. You can, it's just more difficult. I've also shot many deer with AK's and 30-06's. With a 30 caliber bullet (30-06 / .308 / 7.62 ) it's easier to bring them down. I've shot the most deer with a .243 carbine, Remington Model 7. Just something to consider if you ever want to go deer hunting. It all depends on how you want to use it, but if you only have a single rifle I'd want some versatility out of it.

Yes, I've shot lots and lots of deer. Anyhow...back on track...

Here's a decision tree for my recommendations...
I will only ever own one rifle ($) = AK47 in 7.62x39
I will only ever own one rifle ($$$) = AR10 carbine in .308
I will buy one now and another later = Bolt action (30-06, 308, or .243) and AR15 (556)

PS - You dont realize it yet but you also need a .22LR rifle. Yes, it's a requirement, LOL

 

[lalonguecarabine]

If you haven't really shot a .30 cal yet, and you're going after a bolt action - may I suggest you get it in .270?
It'll have less kick than any .30 cal, reaches the same ranges, and it's very plentiful. Going with a bolt also helps avoid the mall-ninja stigma.

If you're going to go with an AR platform though, I agree with everyone saying you should get it in .308. .556 is nice and easy to master, but that .30 cal just gives you peace of mind. And when TSHTF, that's really important.