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  • Glenn B

    Retired & Loving It
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    The TSA was/is an agency that should never have been created in the first place. Too much power in the hands of people that should never have had it in the first place and too many people that lack the real experience in dealing with real world security issues.
    The whole Department of Homeland Security should have been aborted before it ever began. It was a well meaning knee jerk reaction as was the abolishment of the I&NS and then the combination of various agencies within I&NS & U.S Customs to form CBP and ICE. That is all they were though, well meaning knee jerk reactions and they wound up being dismal failures. At least CBP has some direction, ICE is a floundering monstrosity that had the worst morale in the government with Homeland Security Investigations (Made up of U.S. Customs & I&NS Investigators; they changed the name from ICE Investigations because they did not want to be associated with ICE and hoped to gain some little respect among other LE agencies) the lowest for several years. TSA is probaly one of the most hated governemnt agencies ever.
     

    Wiliamr

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    It grieves me every time I hear that. New Fed employees can be fired for any reason during the first year. It's an indictment of management that they don't weed out the losers in the first 12 months.

    After probation, yeah, firing is much more difficult. That can be both good and bad but it's also a whole 'nother topic.

    Makes me crazy when that "can not be fired, or takes forever to be fired" is spouted. I know who ever spouts that has never worked for any government agency. Getting fired from a fed job is somewhat harder than most civilian workplace job yes. The reason that many who have not been fired within the set forth discipline stages is usually some management person who doesnt know the procedures, or does not care tried to fire someone improperly and then in the appeal stages makes an employee "protected from reprisal, or adverse action due to suspect means". Happens all too often.
    Biggest reason for people being retained is in the federal areana, too many people are promoted because they do not pose a threat to those who are above them. The upper echelon likes the ineffectual, the bully, the no action types. People who produce, who apply themselves are a threat and are buried.
     

    benenglish

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    People who produce, who apply themselves are a threat and are buried.
    I know more than one case where the obvious, everybody-in-the-place-knows-it choice for filling a position was denied a promotion simply because they were competent at their current position and management didn't want to take the hit to their numbers by training someone new to do the job. Talk about demoralizing!
     

    Moonpie

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    Oct 4, 2013
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    Gunz are icky.
    I know more than one case where the obvious, everybody-in-the-place-knows-it choice for filling a position was denied a promotion simply because they were competent at their current position and management didn't want to take the hit to their numbers by training someone new to do the job. Talk about demoralizing!

    Been there. Got the scars.
    Best part is when they whine “you’re not a team player anymore”.
     

    Wiliamr

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    I know more than one case where the obvious, everybody-in-the-place-knows-it choice for filling a position was denied a promotion simply because they were competent at their current position and management didn't want to take the hit to their numbers by training someone new to do the job. Talk about demoralizing!
    yep, yep... sad but true
     

    Coyote9

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    Jan 13, 2020
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    Never quite understood why anyone ever wanted to work as an ATF agent unless they were into violating the Constitution or just fucking over people and ruining their liberties (or needed a job and just did not give a damn what it was doing). I worked as a federal agent for 32 years and I think chose my jobs wisely, starting off in the Border Patrol and then going over to Customs ten finally to HSI/DHS (but that through no real desire of my own after 9/11). The the overwhelming great majority of cases I worked, while a Special Agent (criminal investigator), for 28 years or so, were investigations of the smuggling of: drugs, money laundering, terrorism, smuggling of strategic technology, and human trafficking. Thus, my work, as I had hoped & planned, helped to protect the integrity of our borders and our citizens and involved the arrests mainly of foreign nationals and very few U.S. citizens. As for the foreigners, their first acts in the USA were, much more often than not, felonies and misdemeanors - so screw em was my philosophy.

    ATF though, that's a completely different story where the majority of their arrests, I believe, are of U.S. Citizens and the investigations they run, are for the most part (in my long held estimation), a violation of our Constitution. They do lots of good on cases involving bombings and firearms involved murders (with local agencies) but in my opinion, they also willingly do investigations that violate a key clause and key words in the 2nd Amendment - the words being "...shall not be infringed". There will be droves of them moving to suck Biden's arse and crack down on gun owners should he actually get in in January and they will do so gleefully; never quite understood why any citizen takes a job that is set up to outright destroy another citizen's rights.
    I have had three BATFE agents whom I counted as friends. They were honorable and had NO interest in investigating anyone not involved in the large scale smuggling, manufactoring, of other than class 111 weapons. Illegal class 111 was a priority aswere ALL exposives. These are reasonable threats to everyone and I firmly stand behind any agency or agent whose goals are similar
     

    Axxe55

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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    okay.jpeg
     

    Spcwolf

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    Apr 16, 2013
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    Conroe tx
    I have had three BATFE agents whom I counted as friends. They were honorable and had NO interest in investigating anyone not involved in the large scale smuggling, manufactoring, of other than class 111 weapons. Illegal class 111 was a priority aswere ALL exposives. These are reasonable threats to everyone and I firmly stand behind any agency or agent whose goals are similar
    Lots of burned to death kids in Waco would like a word.
     

    Axxe55

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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    My only comments on Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    Ruby Ridge was a set up from the get go. In the end, Randy Weaver won his case against the federal government, and the ONLY charge he was convicted of, (a misdemeanor IIRC.) was a failure to appear charge. There was no proof whatsoever that Weaver illegally sawed any shotgun barrels off.

    Sad fact of the matter, his wife and child died because of that. The state of Idaho wanted to prosecute Lon Horiuchi for manslaughter for the death of Vicky Weaver.


    Waco was another huge cluster-**** from the get go as well. They wanted to grab some glory for the huge ****-up of Ruby Ridge. They SUSPECTED that David Koresh was buying and stockpiling illegal firearms and got a search warrant. Again, never has been proven. And they totally screwed it up.

    What is one of the common denominators in both of these events? Lon Horiuchi! Yes, he was at Waco too.

    Coincidence? I don't think so.

    ETA: IIRC, after Ruby Ridge, there was some strong talk of the BATF being disbanded or having their budgets cut severely to the point they would be essentially useless and powerless, so the Waco fiasco was a hope to save some credibility and regain some measure of respect around DC. I am very surprised that they survived Waco as federal agency.
     
    Last edited:

    Spcwolf

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    My only comments on Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    Ruby Ridge was a set up from the get go. In the end, Randy Weaver won his case against the federal government, and the ONLY charge he was convicted of, (a misdemeanor IIRC.) was a failure to appear charge. There was no proof whatsoever that Weaver illegally sawed any shotgun barrels off.

    Sad fact of the matter, his wife and child died because of that. The state of Idaho wanted to prosecute Lon Horiuchi for manslaughter for the death of Vicky Weaver.


    Waco was another huge cluster-**** from the get go as well. They wanted to grab some glory for the huge ****-up of Ruby Ridge. They SUSPECTED that David Koresh was buying and stockpiling illegal firearms and got a search warrant. Again, never has been proven. And they totally screwed it up.

    What is one of the common denominators in both of these events? Lon Horiuchi! Yes, he was at Waco too.

    Coincidence? I don't think so.

    I am from the area that ruby ridge happened, it’s a living legend about what happened up there for us.
    It’s insanity that Idaho could never get an extradition for that murder if SOB. That piece of shit is hiding out in Hawaii last I heard.
     

    Axxe55

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    Lost in East Texas Elhart Texas
    I am from the area that ruby ridge happened, it’s a living legend about what happened up there for us.
    It’s insanity that Idaho could never get an extradition for that murder if SOB. That piece of shit is hiding out in Hawaii last I heard.

    It was never going to happen. That would admitting fault for what happened and they screwed the pooch royally. They KNEW it was a total fiasco, but they were never going to admit that. And two people died as a result.
     

    Spcwolf

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    It was never going to happen. That would admitting fault for what happened and they screwed the pooch royally. They KNEW it was a total fiasco, but they were never going to admit that. And two people died as a result.
    ATF is nothing more then the harassment and enforcement wing is the democrat establishment. Literally hundreds of horror stories from the 90s and beyond of them harassing law abiding gun owners.
    I don’t care if I get bitched at on this forum or any other for pointing this out. If your main job is to violate the civil rights of Americans and get paid, you are an oath breaker. And should be ran out of town on the rail.

    And for everyone who may end up with a visit from the ministry of peace, here you go.

    don’t talk to the police

     

    benenglish

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    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
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    In response to a post about the ATF at Waco, you said:
    Lots of burned to death kids in Waco would like a word.
    That was the FBI HRT rushing things because they were not prepared for a long term standoff. The BATFE was no longer in charge of the scene by that time.

    There's plenty of blame to go around, to be sure, but I wanted to correct that one small point.
     

    Tcruse

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    Jun 26, 2011
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    Corinth
    All I can say is we need to be ready to pull another Virginia style protest at their facility.
    Yes large scale peaceful and legal protests may be something that will help.
    We also all need to donate to WINRED.com (or other GA senate GOP support groups)
     

    Tcruse

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    Jun 26, 2011
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    I have had three BATFE agents whom I counted as friends. They were honorable and had NO interest in investigating anyone not involved in the large scale smuggling, manufactoring, of other than class 111 weapons. Illegal class 111 was a priority aswere ALL exposives. These are reasonable threats to everyone and I firmly stand behind any agency or agent whose goals are similar
    I think that we all understand that most of the "agents" are good people trying to do the right thing to protect our country. However, the leadership of the agency and the "laws" that allow the agency to exist is more wrong than right.
     
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