Wally World Security Guard

[BBL]

Lots of UNIformed guards are very well UNINformed guards.

 

[leVieux]

Sadly, too many DON'T WANT to know.

For way too long, we have been governed by "what people may think" rather than by our LAW.

I heard that several years back, a Federal Judge in New Orleans called a bunch of NOPD "Supervisors" and told them something like: SINCE YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING, THE NEXT ONE OF YOU WHO DOES THIS IS GOING TO JAIL; YOU ! Individual Officers had complained that their "Watch Commanders" were instructing them to directly violate the Judge's specific orders.

leVieux
.

 

[rotor]

So the question is what will WalMart policy be on 9/1?

I think the other issue is that you let your guard slip by allowing someone to see you becoming armed. I can't blame the person that turned you into security as technically you were in the wrong but I have been in the same situation trying to go from stashed in the car to becoming concealed.

Security guards know the law? Even lawyers don't understand the law.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…
I think the other issue is that you let your guard slip by allowing someone to see you becoming armed…

Yeah, the way 46.02 changes, plain view out of holster is a violation.

The very few times I’ve armed/disarmed in a civilian vehicle I’ve made sure all doors closed, windows up, (mine are all dark tinted) and the windshield sun reflector in place.

 

[mongoose]

So the question is what will WalMart policy be on 9/1?

I think the other issue is that you let your guard slip by allowing someone to see you becoming armed. I can't blame the person that turned you into security as technically you were in the wrong but I have been in the same situation trying to go from stashed in the car to becoming concealed.

Security guards know the law? Even lawyers don't understand the law.

How did I let my guard slip? I could have just open carried. Not given a flip about concealing.
The guard did let it slip that WM was not going to allow carry “ with the new law”.

 

[rotor]

How did I let my guard slip? I could have just open carried. Not given a flip about concealing.

Technically you did not have your gun in a belt or shoulder carry holster while you were manipulating it to put it on your belt and obviously "alarmed" the person that saw you. To carry openly it must be in a belt or shoulder holster that you are wearing, not about to put on, correct? You alarmed a bystander in the transition phase of concealing it. I have been in the same spot myself and it can be hard to conceal a weapon when going from a car stash to wherever you carry conceal. We just need to be very careful when rearming ourselves in these situations to not let the public see us. Can be hard to do.
We don't have a brandishing law in Texas but manipulating a firearm that alarms a member of the public can get one in trouble.

From Toddnjoyce, The very few times I’ve armed/disarmed in a civilian vehicle I’ve made sure all doors closed, windows up, (mine are all dark tinted) and the windshield sun reflector in place.

 

[mongoose]

Technically you did not have your gun in a belt or shoulder carry holster while you were manipulating it to put it on your belt and obviously "alarmed" the person that saw you. To carry openly it must be in a belt or shoulder holster that you are wearing, not about to put on, correct? You alarmed a bystander in the transition phase of concealing it. I have been in the same spot myself and it can be hard to conceal a weapon when going from a car stash to wherever you carry conceal. We just need to be very careful when rearming ourselves in these situations to not let the public see us. Can be hard to do.
We don't have a brandishing law in Texas but manipulating a firearm that alarms a member of the public can get one in trouble.

From Toddnjoyce, The very few times I’ve armed/disarmed in a civilian vehicle I’ve made sure all doors closed, windows up, (mine are all dark tinted) and the windshield sun reflector in place.

Actually my weapon was in a “ belt ” holster the whole time. I see nothing in the law that says it has to be on your body the complete time.

 

[Sasquatch]

Technically you did not have your gun in a belt or shoulder carry holster while you were manipulating it to put it on your belt and obviously "alarmed" the person that saw you. To carry openly it must be in a belt or shoulder holster that you are wearing, not about to put on, correct? You alarmed a bystander in the transition phase of concealing it. I have been in the same spot myself and it can be hard to conceal a weapon when going from a car stash to wherever you carry conceal. We just need to be very careful when rearming ourselves in these situations to not let the public see us. Can be hard to do.
We don't have a brandishing law in Texas but manipulating a firearm that alarms a member of the public can get one in trouble.

From Toddnjoyce, The very few times I’ve armed/disarmed in a civilian vehicle I’ve made sure all doors closed, windows up, (mine are all dark tinted) and the windshield sun reflector in place.

This is the kind of bullshit that is unnecessary, and wouldn't be an issue if there weren't places one could not legally carry. Law says you can't carry into XYZ place because of a sign, or its one of the naughty places, like a hospital or nursing home. So you're a good boy and you don't take that evil, despicable, horrible gun into visit Grandma like a good grand child. You hafta stop at the store to pick up some groceries and maybe some tampons for your wife or daughter, or your non-binary-gender-fluid "it" that has a bleeder but won't call itself a girl, whatever. You're legally allowed to be armed in the car. You're legally allowed to be armed in the store. But since you couldn't legally be armed at Shady Acres Retirement Megacenter, you're in a sticky pickle of having to have the transition period where you're putting your firearm into its holster, or putting the holstered firearm into your belt or where ever, and Karen K O'Karen gets the vapors because she catches a glimpse of your big black Glock that was temporarily exposed. Now you've done committed a crime and the po-leece gon' hafta come deal with it, and you *could* wind up in a jam.

 

[toddnjoyce]

...rearmed in the parking lot before going in ( common practice )...

Come 1 Sep, that practice will be a violation of TPC 46.02 thanks to HB1927. While a security guard can't do jack sh!t about it, LEO can.

SECTION 22. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsections (a), (a-1), and (b) and adding Subsections (a-5), (a-6), (a-7), (a-8), and (e) to read as follows:
...
(a-5) A person commits an offense if the person carries a handgun and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a holster.
....

IIRC, that'll become a Class A misdemeanor.

 

[rotor]

Actually my weapon was in a “ belt ” holster the whole time. I see nothing in the law that says it has to be on your body the complete time.

You may be right and you also did not intentionally display your weapon but the term " on or about the license holder’s person " is used so often in the law that I interpret that to mean that my walking around with a holster that is in a shoulder or belt holster but not on my shoulder or belt is probably not legal for open carry but what do I know.

 

[mongoose]

Come 1 Sep, that practice will be a violation of TPC 46.02 thanks to HB1927. While a security guard can't do jack sh!t about it, LEO can.

SECTION 22. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsections (a), (a-1), and (b) and adding Subsections (a-5), (a-6), (a-7), (a-8), and (e) to read as follows:
...
(a-5) A person commits an offense if the person carries a handgun and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a holster.
....

IIRC, that'll become a Class A misdemeanor.

Thanks

 

[lightflyer1]

You could argue your car isn't a public place. You can have it in your car and carry it too so you must be able to transfer it from your car to your holster. Being as discreet as possible. Outside the car would be another matter.

 

[mongoose]

I have armed myself outside my truck 100s of times. However, I now do the dance inside my truck.

 

[Axxe55]

Let me throw out this hypothetical scenario, with the same thing happening to @mongoose, if it were set ahead, after September 1st. when the new law goes in effect.

With the given new changes to the law as @toddnjoyce described, would that change how Mongoose could or should have reacted or dealt with the same scenario?

 

[Sasquatch]

Let me throw out this hypothetical scenario, with the same thing happening to @mongoose, if it were set ahead, after September 1st. when the new law goes in effect.

With the given new changes to the law as @toddnjoyce described, would that change how Mongoose could or should have reacted or dealt with the same scenario?

Tell security they are mistaken or must've been someone else. Or leave and go to another store to avoid the headache and potential class A charge. Maybe the security monkey pushes the issue, calls the cops, or finds the off-duty cop pulling security and makes it an issue. Even if you're armed when the cop finds you, they have to prove the woman specifically saw you with the gun in your hand. This is Texas, right? Lots of folks carrying. Even if Karen O'Karen gives a vague description "he had a big black gun" - how many modern pistols are black? What are the chances a concealed carrier is going to have a black gun? Probably better to avoid the headache and just go somewhere else. Maybe order the chinese crap you were getting from Walmart from Amazon instead? Or if groceries, go to HEB or Kroger instead.

I don't have much faith in the leadership of big city law enforcement to properly train up their officers on the new law and its intricacies, nor the discretion of a lot of cops to say "dude, be more discrete next time" instead of "welps, Karen O'Karen saw your gun in your hand and freaked out, too bad you were just putting it on your belt. That's a class A misdeameanor, so we're going to have to take you in and seize your firearm" - best case there, you spend thousands on a lawyer to get the charge dropped or to take to trial and hope you win.

Worst case, you can't afford a lawyer, you get stuck with a shit PD who just pushes you to accept a plea, and you lose your LTC if you have one, and you can't carry under the constitutional carry law either, and your gun probably doesn't get returned.

Deeper concealment methods will probably get more popular among those who are seriously into carry, come Sept 1. I'm looking into a Phlster Enigma setup as a good option. I'd also like to get my hands on a Glock 48 and some Shield Arms mags for it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Let me throw out this hypothetical scenario, with the same thing happening to @mongoose, if it were set ahead, after September 1st. when the new law goes in effect.

With the given new changes to the law as @toddnjoyce described, would that change how Mongoose could or should have reacted or dealt with the same scenario?

See post 69. This is real simple, Don’t confuse a private security agent with an LEO, on duty or off. You have zero requirement to answer questions from a security officer. You do not have to ID yourself, you have no duty to inform re: LTC status or being armed.

They can ask you to leave, they can throw you out, but they cannot prevent you from leaving. If they prevent you from leaving, you are being illegally detained by a private citizen. When LEO arrives or the security officer presents you to the magistrate (it’s required), tell your story to the LEO or magistrate.

Your story is I asked if I could leave and was told no. I tried to leave and was detained.

Same thing with the store manager.

 

[480 Ruger]

Come 1 Sep, that practice will be a violation of TPC 46.02 thanks to HB1927. While a security guard can't do jack sh!t about it, LEO can.

SECTION 22. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsections (a), (a-1), and (b) and adding Subsections (a-5), (a-6), (a-7), (a-8), and (e) to read as follows:
...
(a-5) A person commits an offense if the person carries a handgun and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a holster.
....

IIRC, that'll become a Class A misdemeanor.

I think the meaning of the words " intentionally displays " are very different than what actually happened, which was accidentally expose, or briefly expose

 

[CodyK]

Went to the mall last week (don’t ask) for the first time in maybe 10 years. There was a “gun buster” sign (picture of a gun crossed out with a red line) on literally every single door and even placards placed in several areas inside the mall. The signs stated that guns were not allowed and said they had security guards and gun sniffing dogs to check! I can tell you now, it will be at least another 20 years before I go back!


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[Sasquatch]

Went to the mall last week (don’t ask) for the first time in maybe 10 years. There was a “gun buster” sign (picture of a gun crossed out with a red line) on literally every single door and even placards placed in several areas inside the mall. The signs stated that guns were not allowed and said they had security guards and gun sniffing dogs to check! I can tell you now, it will be at least another 20 years before I go back!


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Unless properly posted 30.06 / 07, those signs currently don't mean shit. Security with "gun sniffing dogs" is a lie, no doubt. Never heard of a security company that invested in actual trained dogs here in the US outside of govnerment contractors, and those dogs would be on military / nuclear / power installations or similar - not out patrolling your local mall. And those security guards can't detain you unless you've committed a crime in their presence even if their dog "alerts" on you. And who is to say you don't have a pocket full of dog treats for your dogs or random good doggos? Or maybe the dog has a fart fetish and you just broke wind.

When I did security work, one of our supervisors would bring his GSD to work. Dog was allegedly trained in protection, he just used it to scare sketchy people off of client property. Dog was huge, but relatively dumb for a GSD. He was better trained to fetch a ball than to do any "working dog" tasks. Was most certainly not a company owned or paid for dog.

 

[rotor]

Went to the mall last week (don’t ask) for the first time in maybe 10 years. There was a “gun buster” sign (picture of a gun crossed out with a red line) on literally every single door and even placards placed in several areas inside the mall. The signs stated that guns were not allowed and said they had security guards and gun sniffing dogs to check! I can tell you now, it will be at least another 20 years before I go back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That sign with accompanying picture was posted somewhere else already. Does not have an effect on LTC holder but according to Texas Law Shield lawyers that will be a valid no entry sign for CC holders, or so they say. Someone said those exact signs have been up for years.
I personally will shop at a gunbuster sign place and 30.07 place, it is only 30.06 that makes me go elsewhere. For many of these places they are walking a fine line trying to appease the Karen's and not piss off the gun owners. It will be interesting to see what happens 9/1.

WTH is this sign?

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