Was it right to fire a San Marcos police sgt for an off-duty wreck?

[Sasquatch]

San Marcos police officer involved in deadly Lockhart collision in 2020 loses job

San Marcos City Manager Bert Lumbreras said Ryab Hartman’s firing was the result of misconduct related to dereliction of duty and insubordination.

www.statesman.com

The sergeant was involved in an off-duty wreck last year that killed a person. He was reportedly speeding and ran a stop sign and collided with the other vehicle, killing one of the occupants. Also reported that he had an open container of beer and "beer salts" - but tox report says he had no alcohol in his system. He did refuse a field sobriety test.

He was placed on indefinite suspension, which is equivalent to termination.


I'm kinda torn on this one - cops are typically held to higher standards for reason - and it sounds like he fucked up in more ways than one - running the stop sign, speeding which probably contributed to that, and the open container of alcohol. I can see a long suspension without pay being reasonable for those. His tox screen came back no alcohol though - and it wasn't mentioned that he was under the influence of any other substances, so it seems that he wasn't impaired, just maybe impatient. I understand why the survivor wants him fired - emotion and justice.

I don't think the fact that the wreck became a fatal should elevate it to him being fired necessarily either. If he had been driving the speed limit and not had the open container and still hit & killed the person - would that matter?

While I'm sure the agency has policies that cover off duty actions, a grand jury declined to charge the sergeant. He was given a traffic citation for the stop sign violation. A long term unpaid suspension might be reasonable, but I don't think he should've necessarily lost his job, unless this is a continuation of a pattern in his disciplinary record that none of the articles mentions or was privy to. It seems like they're throwing the guy to the wolves of politics. If he'd been on-duty when this happened, I can see firing him for it. But he wasn't working. I generally don't like employers firing people for things that happen when they're not on the clock, and not representing the employer.

 

[popper]

Same thing might happen to you if working in the private sector for a large corp. You are responsible for your actions and actions have consequences. On or off the job.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Want to enforce the laws start with yourself obeying the laws. Cops are not special people in fact no body is.

 

[Moonpie]

Bet ya the tox results WEREN’T negative.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Maybe they were afraid to put him into a company vehicle.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Held to a higher standard for a reason. If I did all that shît on post/base, I’d be turning large rocks into small rocks for a good period of time. When that’s done, I’d be dishonorably discharged (dismissed, technically, but same impact).

All this guy got was indefinitely suspended? He should thank his lucky stars and go find a different line of work.

And stop drinking and driving.

 

[BRD@66]

DWI -> vehicular homicide -> lucky to just lose his job.

 

[Ozzman]

IMO, YES; he needed to lose his job.
He lost all credibility as a law enforcement officer after he made these choices.

 

[Sasquatch]

DWI -> vehicular homicide -> lucky to just lose his job.

Tox screen came back negative for alcohol. Not a DWI crash.

 

[Sasquatch]

Held to a higher standard for a reason. If I did all that shît on post/base, I’d be turning large rocks into small rocks for a good period of time. When that’s done, I’d be dishonorably discharged (dismissed, technically, but same impact).

All this guy got was indefinitely suspended? He should thank his lucky stars and go find a different line of work.

And stop drinking and driving.

Tox screen came back negative for alcohol - article did not mention any other potential intoxicants.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Tox screen came back negative for alcohol - article did not mention any other potential intoxicants.

From blood drawn 3hrs after the incident. Plenty of time to metabolize off.

 

[Fishkiller]

Did this guy break the law? YES. If you or I did this would we be facing vehicular manslaughter? YES. At a minimum he should be held to the same standard as any schmoe would be. Should be in Jail waiting trail.

 

[Axxe55]

I see it this way. Anyone that pins on the badge, and is charged with upholding and enforcing our laws, that person should be held to a higher standard since they represent our communities.

We talk about double standards, well here is a perfect example of playing a double standard. If they don't fire him, it clearly shows a double standard, or preferential treatment because he's a LEO? IMO, being in LE is a job choice and one where your off-duty conduct reflects on your daily professional life and in how you perform your job.

And many private sector jobs also have standards that apply to you during off-duty activities, and how you conduct yourself as to how it reflects upon the company you work for. Many companies cover this in their employee handbooks. I seriously doubt many people ever have read an employee handbook, or know all the things that are covered in them.

 

[Sasquatch]

I see it this way. Anyone that pins on the badge, and is charged with upholding and enforcing our laws, that person should be held to a higher standard since they represent our communities.

We talk about double standards, well here is a perfect example of playing a double standard. If they don't fire him, it clearly shows a double standard, or preferential treatment because he's a LEO? IMO, being in LE is a job choice and one where your off-duty conduct reflects on your daily professional life and in how you perform your job.

And many private sector jobs also have standards that apply to you during off-duty activities, and how you conduct yourself as to how it reflects upon the company you work for. Many companies cover this in their employee handbooks. I seriously doubt many people ever have read an employee handbook, or know all the things that are covered in them.

And some of us single handedly wrote the employee manuals and company P&P's...

 

[Axxe55]

What I'm hoping they are doing by suspending him is doing a full review and investigation into him, the incident, his work record and making sure all the "i's" are dotted and the "t's" are crossed so they fire him and go forth with filing criminal charges against him.

Doing anything less would be a disservice to the city and the community, and reflect badly on the department. It would also cause a loss of faith from the citizens in that city as well.

 

[Sam7sf]

Yes.

 

[bbbass]

I don't think the fact that the wreck became a fatal should elevate it to him being fired necessarily either. If he had been driving the speed limit and not had the open container and still hit & killed the person - would that matter?

But he was NOT driving the speed limit, he DID run a stop sign = Reckless driving. And he DID have an open container.

The way the city needs to look at his behavior is not so much that cops are held to a higher standard, but that good/great judgement is needed by people they hire to perform the duties of that occupation. They really can't afford to trust him anymore... he is a LIABILITY to the city in that for any question about his action as a LEO in the future this will be said to have been fair warning and the city will be sued.

Did this guy break the law? YES. If you or I did this would we be facing vehicular manslaughter? YES. At a minimum he should be held to the same standard as any schmoe would be. Should be in Jail waiting trail.

A guy that worked for one of my best friends ran a stop sign on a back road while texting and was given 7yrs for vehicular manslaughter and can never drive again.

So I agree, firing should be the least of the consequences for wanton disregard of the traffic laws by someone that has the power and duty of ENFORCING the traffic laws and other laws.

 

[VNK971]

Here's the intersection where the incident occurred. The white information sign under the Stop sign says "Cross Traffic Does Not Stop". Texas 130 is a toll road and Lockhart is east of this intersection.

 

[FireInTheWire]

I find it interesting that he didn't blow at the scene. That would have proved immediately if he was impaired. It's suspicious that he waited.

Open container could have been from him forgetting it in his truck someplace. Hell I have them sometimes by accident from riding around on the ranch. Was there spilt beer? Was the container cold? What's considered an open container?

Beer salt being in the vehicle is an absolute stupid moot point.

I don't have enough facts to say thumb up or down.

 

[cycleguy2300]

San Marcos police officer involved in deadly Lockhart collision in 2020 loses job

San Marcos City Manager Bert Lumbreras said Ryab Hartman’s firing was the result of misconduct related to dereliction of duty and insubordination.

www.statesman.com

The sergeant was involved in an off-duty wreck last year that killed a person. He was reportedly speeding and ran a stop sign and collided with the other vehicle, killing one of the occupants. Also reported that he had an open container of beer and "beer salts" - but tox report says he had no alcohol in his system. He did refuse a field sobriety test.

He was placed on indefinite suspension, which is equivalent to termination.


I'm kinda torn on this one - cops are typically held to higher standards for reason - and it sounds like he fucked up in more ways than one - running the stop sign, speeding which probably contributed to that, and the open container of alcohol. I can see a long suspension without pay being reasonable for those. His tox screen came back no alcohol though - and it wasn't mentioned that he was under the influence of any other substances, so it seems that he wasn't impaired, just maybe impatient. I understand why the survivor wants him fired - emotion and justice.

I don't think the fact that the wreck became a fatal should elevate it to him being fired necessarily either. If he had been driving the speed limit and not had the open container and still hit & killed the person - would that matter?

While I'm sure the agency has policies that cover off duty actions, a grand jury declined to charge the sergeant. He was given a traffic citation for the stop sign violation. A long term unpaid suspension might be reasonable, but I don't think he should've necessarily lost his job, unless this is a continuation of a pattern in his disciplinary record that none of the articles mentions or was privy to. It seems like they're throwing the guy to the wolves of politics. If he'd been on-duty when this happened, I can see firing him for it. But he wasn't working. I generally don't like employers firing people for things that happen when they're not on the clock, and not representing the employer.

Without looking into the circumstances closer I won't say "should" or "shouldn't have" be fired, but I he doesn't sound sound like someone making good choices, or someone I would want to work with.

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