Pistol Brace Amnesty/Registration

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • benenglish

    Just Another Boomer
    Staff member
    Lifetime Member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
    23,932
    96
    Spring
    Doesn't look like a rifle aperture that would require shouldering to me...
    Granted, the rule doesn't specify aperture sights as a type, merely "sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder..."

    So, where aperture sights are used, is the ATF going to, someday, publish a rule that specifies what size aperture requires firing from the shoulder, thus mandating a minimum size to use at arms length?

    I can just see it now, the BATFE knocking down my door, armed with calipers to measure the inside diameter of all my rear sights...

    Oy, vey. :(
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2013
    9,616
    96
    Georgetown
    Well, I was only ever talking about that type.

    ETA: So, you are saying they are not an issue on an AR pistol?
    A pistol is a pistol. ATF is not banning AR pistols. They are saying that a pistol with a brace or stock is an SBR. You can put a red dot on a Glock, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, AR pistol, or any other handgun. If you put a brace or a stock on one tho, it becomes an SBR (in their opinion). The confusion stems from the now defunct form 4999.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,732
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    A pistol is a pistol. ATF is not banning AR pistols. They are saying that a pistol with a brace or stock is an SBR. You can put a red dot on a Glock, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, AR pistol, or any other handgun. If you put a brace or a stock on one tho, it becomes an SBR (in their opinion). The confusion stems from the now defunct form 4999.
    As long as it's not a prismatic red dot.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,732
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    Can you not put a prismatic red dot on a Glock if you wanted? Again, all that factoring criteria went out the window with the form 4999.

    Can't honestly answer your question.
    I'm just regurgitating what has been stated previously.
    Hopefully I stated it correctly.
     

    innominate

    Asian Cajun
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 3, 2010
    2,044
    96
    Austin
    Since the atf states original design is a factor in their classifications I still think they could argue that an AR pistol is a sbr because the original design of the AR has a stock covering the buffer.
     

    toddnjoyce

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Sep 27, 2017
    19,285
    96
    Boerne
    The new criteria: If it's less than 16" barrel and has a brace or stock, it's an SBR.

    That is not what 27 CFR 479.11 states in the statute.

    1) For purposes of this definition, the term “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” shall include a weapon that is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided other factors, as described in paragraph (2), indicate that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.

    (2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    (i) Whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or length of similarly designed rifles;

    (ii) Whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
    (iii) Whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    (v) The manufacturer's direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials indicating the intended use of the weapon; and

    (vi) Information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general community.
     

    Eastexasrick

    Isn't it pretty to think so.
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2022
    3,500
    96
    Naples TX.
    Their statement, it is an SBR if

    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    "or other rearward attachment"

    Everything else aside, if you have anything, regardless of length of said thing, sticking out the back or " rearward" of the receiver, they are going to call it an SBR.
     

    PinnedandRecessed

    Allegedly
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Feb 11, 2019
    2,778
    96
    Hays County
    I think it's irrelevant to debate what their definition of "is" is until the law suits are all sorted out.
    One could argue that the ATF is in the business of handing out rope for law abiding citizens to hang themselves with. Ambiguousness is the key. They'll let you know what law you broke after you've broken it.
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2013
    9,616
    96
    Georgetown
    That is not what 27 CFR 479.11 states in the statute.

    1) For purposes of this definition, the term “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” shall include a weapon that is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided other factors, as described in paragraph (2), indicate that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.

    (2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    (i) Whether the weapon has a weight or length consistent with the weight or length of similarly designed rifles;

    (ii) Whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;
    (iii) Whether the weapon is equipped with sights or a scope with eye relief that require the weapon to be fired from the shoulder in order to be used as designed;
    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    (v) The manufacturer's direct and indirect marketing and promotional materials indicating the intended use of the weapon; and

    (vi) Information demonstrating the likely use of the weapon in the general community.
    That's what I said...in one sentence.
     

    Bozz10mm

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 5, 2013
    9,616
    96
    Georgetown
    Their statement, it is an SBR if

    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    "or other rearward attachment"

    Everything else aside, if you have anything, regardless of length of said thing, sticking out the back or " rearward" of the receiver, they are going to call it an SBR.
    More ambiguity on their part. They don't actually say "It is an SBR if".

    (2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    The way I read it, if the buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, it is not a brace.

    AR pistols with buffer tubes are still being sold without requiring a tax stamp, which leads me to believe they will remain legal.
     
    Last edited:

    jrbfishn

    TGT Addict
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Aug 9, 2013
    28,315
    96
    south of killeen
    More ambiguity on their part. They don't actually say "It is an SBR if".

    (2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    The way I read it, if the buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, it is not a brace.

    AR pistols with buffer tubes are still being sold without requiring a tax stamp, which leads me to believe they will remain legal.
    It leaves room to to say they don't care if it is needed as a vital part to make it function. If it gives a way to shoulder the firearm, it is an SBR. It can be interpreted either way.

    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
     

    Eastexasrick

    Isn't it pretty to think so.
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jul 2, 2022
    3,500
    96
    Naples TX.
    It leaves room to to say they don't care if it is needed as a vital part to make it function. If it gives a way to shoulder the firearm, it is an SBR. It can be interpreted either way.

    Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
    I agree. They will liberally construe it to their benefit, and your attorney will attempt to defend you, much to the detriment of your retirement savings
     
    Top Bottom