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  • toddnjoyce

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    More ambiguity on their part. They don't actually say "It is an SBR if".

    (2) When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    (iv) Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations;

    The way I read it, if the buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, it is not a brace.

    AR pistols with buffer tubes are still being sold without requiring a tax stamp, which leads me to believe they will remain legal.

    What the statute says is when there is either
    An accessory
    Or
    A component
    Or
    Other rearward attachment

    The agency shall consider, which ordinarily means the agency is compelled by law to do what is stated in 2 (i)-(vi).

    When you read 2 (i)-(vi), there is no punctation or other grammar or words that indicate the agency has the leeway to only consider one of the six factors. This is because the statute includes semicolons at the end of (i) thru (iv) the statement at the end of (v) is AND, which conjoins (i-v) with (vi) which ends with the only period in sub-para 2.

    In short, sub-para 2 and (i) thru (vi) is one sentence in which all things in (i)-(vi) must be be considered in totality for ATF to make a decision.

    That the agency doesn’t even understand the mechanics of the rule they wrote indicates an astounding level of incompetence.
    Guns International
     
    Last edited:

    Eastexasrick

    Isn't it pretty to think so.
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    What the statute says is when there is either
    An accessory
    Or
    A component
    Or
    A Brace

    The agency shall consider, which ordinarily means the agency is compelled by law to do what is stated in 2 (i)-(vi).

    When you read 2 (i)-(vi), there is no punctation or other grammar or words that indicate the agency has the leeway to only consider one of the six factors. This is because the statute includes semicolons at the end of (i) thru (iv) the statement at the end of (v) is AND, which conjoins (i-v) with (vi) which ends with the only period in sub-para 2.

    In short, sub-para 2 and (i) thru (vi) is one sentence in which all things in (i)-(vi) must be be considered in totality for ATF to make a decision.

    That the agency doesn’t even understand the mechanics of the rule they wrote indicates an astounding level of incompetence.
    I was too lazy. Thanks Prof., Todd.
     

    TheDan

    deplorable malcontent scofflaw
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    One could argue that the ATF is in the business of handing out rope for law abiding citizens to hang themselves with. Ambiguousness is the key. They'll let you know what law you broke after you've broken it.
    I think the important thing is to just not get on their radar. Once you do you're boned as they'll come up with some way to ruin your life even if you haven't committed a crime yet. Yeah we're all on "a list" just for being posters on here, but that's different than actively being involved in an "investigation".

    I agree. They will liberally construe it to their benefit, and your attorney will attempt to defend you, much to the detriment of your retirement savings
    Their trial conviction rate is only something like 3%. Most people take a plea. Something to keep in mind. A rainy day fund is just as much for manmade disasters as it is natural ones.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I was too lazy. Thanks Prof., Todd.

    Thanks, but even I’m making a a little but of an interpretive error here. The CFR is the collection of regulations that detail how a statute is implemented. The US Code is the actual statute. In this case, the statute is 26 USC 5845, which is the NFA.

    I don’t think that’s really settled in for everyone. The definition of rifle ATF chose to change is the definition a rifle subject to 26 USC 5845. Pistols aren’t defined in the NFA, but they are defined in 27 CFR 479.11, along with the contested definition of rifle. 27 CFR479.11 spells out the procedural and substantive requirements certain firearms subject to the provisions of the NFA.

    27 CFR 479.11 defines a pistol.
    Pistol.
    A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

    27 CFR 479.11 says the only thing that can be called a pistol, for NFA purposes, is something that meets the above definition.

    So, if it wasn’t originally designed to fire a projectile one-handed with a short stock that is gripped by one hand, that weapon cannot be a pistol as far as the NFA is concerned.
     

    Eastexasrick

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    What Ifs are going to go on until they litigate or prosecute. Details, elements, minutiae, history, even facts become irrelevant. Juries are fickle, usually deciding the outcome with little regard for the minutiae that facts are made of. Which is why all substantive case law is decided at or above the appellate level.

    I would see the prosecution closing with this.
    The presentation is actual weapons the jury can see, and touch if necessary.

    On the top we have an AR platform weapon. which they will present, as obvious to the casual observer, a weapon designed as a rifle.
    On the bottom will be a Colt 1860, and to the casual observer it was designed as a pistol.
    In the middle will be your weapon.

    Ladies and gentlemen, you decide what this looks like to you.
    Now your case goes to the Appellate Court.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    So, what about a Ruger charger?
    It's built off the 10/22.

    Are they now SBRs?

    ETA: I know you can't answer, but this just pisses me off.

    :green:

    I’m just as pissed. I mentioned incompetence earlier, but I’m back to intentional bureaucratic evil simply to meet a political promise. That’s not how our government was ever designed to work.

    This rule, at face value, tells Americans that after more than decade of consistent governmental guidance on the subject, that there’s a new, un-elected sheriff in town and it’s his way or you’re a felon.

    I’ll quote Earl Warren here. In his biography, Warren talks about his role in the WWII interment camps; he says he “deeply regretted the removal order and my own testimony advocating it, because it was not in keeping with our American concept of freedom and the rights of citizens.”

    In their memoirs, I don’t think anyone responsible for drafting, finalizing, or adopting this rule will have the same conscience that Warren had.
     

    PinnedandRecessed

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    1679707295089.png
     

    candcallen

    Crotchety, Snarky, Truthful. You'll get over it.
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    When is the "last" day for registering/free stamps? May 31?
    Yes, but no stamp just an approved letter and the satisfaction of knowing that the atf knows exactly where you are.

    Also I'm sure everyone who sold braces have already turned over sales records. So they know anyways.

    Ofcourse none of us would violate any laws.
     
    Every Day Man
    Tyrant

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