Carrying In Vehicle w/o CHL

[sv6er]

Hi folks.

This looks like a pretty active forum, I look forward to wasting a lot of valuable time here

I'm moved to Houston earlier this year. I bought my first handgun (an XD45 Service), and took the CHL this fall. Until my CHL is issued, I'd like keep my gun with me whenever legally possible, but I have a few questions.

I have read the laws, and I have talked to someone working for the state in regards to these laws, and I felt like there was a lot of unclear and conflicting information, so I'm wondering if someone could clarify the following or point me in a direction to find this stuff out.

1. According to the law, I'm allowed to have a handgun in the car. It doesn't say one way or the other, but I assume I'm allowed to have it locked and loaded. Is this correct?
2. I was told that you can have the hangun in the car, but you can not have it ON YOU. Having it on you in your own car requires a CHL. That's what I was told, but reading the laws it seems as though it is fine to have it on you when you're in your car. Anyone?
3. I often ride a motorcycle. Would it also be ok to have my handgun stored in one of the storage compartments in my bike? And if that's true, and if you're allowed to have it on you when in your vehicle, would I also be able to have it on me when I'm on my bike as long as I leave it in the bike before I get off of it?
4. If I get pulled over, do I mention the gun right away like I would if I was a CHL holder, or do I not mention it until asked by the police officer if I have any weapons? I was told that I shouldn't point it out unless asked, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do once you have a CHL.

Again, I've taken my CHL class, but it hasn't been issued yet. I just want to know for sure what I'm allowed to do in the mean time.

Thanks for reading!

 

[nalioth]

This has all been covered here many times.

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...ored-double-action-chl/2729-anybody-hear.html

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gunsmithing/2847-transporting-firearm-gunsmith.html

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/general-firearms/2490-illegal.html

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-legislation/109-texas-gun-laws.html

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

The law uses the term "motor vehicle" and doesn't differentiate between automobiles and motorcycles. It also does not address having the firearm on your person in the vehicle, as long as it is concealed. Until there is case law that states otherwise, I believe carrying the gun on you person while in (or on) your motor vehicle is included in this statute. However, the practical application of carrying on your person while in your car on your motorcycle can become sticky when an officer instructs you to exit your vehicle or dismount your bike.

This would be a good question to ask an LEO, but I suspect it wouldn't become an issue unless you were involved in other illegal activity, or just being a general jackass.

 

[nalioth]

However, the practical application of carrying on your person while in your car on your motorcycle can become sticky when an officer instructs you to exit your vehicle or dismount your bike.

This would be a good question to ask an LEO, but I suspect it wouldn't become an issue unless you were involved in other illegal activity, or just being a general jackass.

I don't see any issues if you inform the LEO you're carrying pursuant to the law.

If the LEO does instruct you to leave your vehicle after being informed, and issues a ticket for the weapon, I'd call "entrapment".


Also, do not ask a LEO about any laws. You should ask a lawyer.

LEOs are amazingly scatterbrained on laws they don't regularly enforce, and when asked can come up with some amazing (but not legal) laws for you.

I'll refer to the Texas LEO who thought it would be illegal for me to mail a rifle directly to him (it is not).

 

[sv6er]

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it.

Do some agencies (such as the Houston PD or Harris SD) chose to have a different interpretation? From what I've been told by someone who should know, you're gonna spend the night in jail if you have a handgun in your car on you in Houston, without a CHL. (I can't remember if it was HPD or HCSD that's doing it.)

I just want to figure out exactly what the laws are, so if anything goes down, I can point to a law or case law and say "see, I wasn't breaking any laws."

 

[nalioth]

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it.

Do some agencies (such as the Houston PD or Harris SD) chose to have a different interpretation? From what I've been told by someone who should know, you're gonna spend the night in jail if you have a handgun in your car on you in Houston, without a CHL. (I can't remember if it was HPD or HCSD that's doing it.)

I just want to figure out exactly what the laws are, so if anything goes down, I can point to a law or case law and say "see, I wasn't breaking any laws."

No, the latest revision of the law specifically spells out what the government can and cannot do. They did this in response to the Harris County (and others) District Attorney refusing to recognize the prior wording.

You are hearing old news.

 

[Texan2]

No, the latest revision of the law specifically spells out what the government can and cannot do. They did this in response to the Harris County (and others) District Attorney refusing to recognize the prior wording.

You are hearing old news.

Thats not to say that there arent a**hole cops somewhere that will still take you to jail if they perceive some wrongdoing.

Your best bet is to not argue law on the side of the road...

The old saying still holds true, "You might beat the rap, but you wont beat the ride!"

 

[nalioth]

Thats not to say that there arent a**hole cops somewhere that will still take you to jail if they perceive some wrongdoing.

Your best bet is to not argue law on the side of the road...

The old saying still holds true, "You might beat the rap, but you wont beat the ride!"

That's true, but in a case of "perceived wrongdoing", they can take you downtown for almost anything.

 

[Texan2]

I don't see any issues if you inform the LEO you're carrying pursuant to the law.

If the LEO does instruct you to leave your vehicle after being informed, and issues a ticket for the weapon, I'd call "entrapment".


Also, do not ask a LEO about any laws. You should ask a lawyer.

LEOs are amazingly scatterbrained on laws they don't regularly enforce, and when asked can come up with some amazing (but not legal) laws for you.

I'll refer to the Texas LEO who thought it would be illegal for me to mail a rifle directly to him (it is not).

I'll take responsibility for the above remark.....
I have literally owned at least a hundred weapons in the course of my life and associate with people who have bought and sold all of their life.
And while I am sure you are correct, I have asked the most gun knowledgeable people I know and so far none knew you could do that.
Since it is not something that is commonly done with most people, I dont think most know you can do it.

As far as the LEOs I know, we don't address alot of the laws on the books very often. There is alot of the Penal Code that we use everyday and alot of other Codes that we never crack open in a whole career.

So if you question is about something pertinant to that officers job, he may be a good source of info.

Asking most lawyers about criminal law is a joke.....at least with San Antonio area lawyers. From their perspective, nothing is a crime, and they think they have a way around everything.

Your best bet would be to find an Assistant District Attorney, they are usually are pretty sharp.

I see lots of people on here who quote law pretty regularly. Problem is there is alot of gray area in alot of laws and alot of prosecutors and judges interpret things a little different than you or I might.

And the above described scenario isn't "entrapment", it is just a bad arrest (or citation) and the defendant should file a motion to have the case dismissed, and that would probably be the end of it.

Entrapment-A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

I certainly understand that most attorneys are going to have a better grasp of the law, be an LEO will give you a better idea of how the stop will be handled and what their their take on the whole matter will be. You have two issues here: Will you beat the wrap? Do you want to go to jail over something stupid, even though you'll beat it?

 

[Texan2]

It has been my observation that people expect LEOs to know, (from memory) every law that there is and ever was, and thats just not reality for anyone, even if they are the police.
Many times I have asked defense attorneys about a case, (a few of which are close friends), and am amazed at how often they have no clue about what i am talking about and have to go look it up, only later to say "wow, didnt realize that was on the books". Lawyers field of expertise is usually the courtroom, much the same way a cop's arena is a traffic stop. I learn new stuff everyday....like the fact I can mail a rifle within the state....

Now that having been said, it seems that people often take pleasure in somehow proving the cops wrong. As has been mentioned, police try to work within the law, taking into account recent case law that is handed down, as well as their department's policies. There are some folks (and I am not saying they are here as this is a pretty good group) that relish the thought of proving a cop wrong. My point was that the side of the road is not the place to get in a pissing contest with the police. About the time you tell him that he cant take you to jail, is about he time that he will prove you wrong.
As mentioned by DA-CHL, you may beat the wrap, but you still could get arrested, booked and have your vehicle towed ($$$$).
A conversational tone with a patrolman will usually go much farther than quoting law and trying to show him how much smarter you are...

Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving....

 

[FreedomJoyAdventure]

Here's another option: go to the next gun show, buy the latest version of the book 'Texas Gun Laws'(?, not sure if I'm remembering the title correctly), read it, and carry it in the car with you, preferably in plain sight.

At the very least, if you get in trouble, an argument could be made that you were doing your best to follow the law.

 

[Army 1911]

simple solution

When stopped, before the LEO gets to your car, put the gun in the glove compartment. It is not on you and if directed to leave the car, you don't have to worry about it. A friend was in a car accident recently, had his gun on but no CHL, that is what he did. Cop saw the holster and asked him about it. He said it was in the glove compartment and that was that.

Personally, I have never been asked to leave my car for a traffic violation.

 

[Texan2]

When stopped, before the LEO gets to your car, put the gun in the glove compartment. It is not on you and if directed to leave the car, you don't have to worry about it. A friend was in a car accident recently, had his gun on but no CHL, that is what he did. Cop saw the holster and asked him about it. He said it was in the glove compartment and that was that.

Personally, I have never been asked to leave my car for a traffic violation.

Most wont ask you to leave the car....unless yhey want to separate you from someone in the car. To talk to you separately.
For what it is worth...dont get out of your car on a stop without being told to do so. Makes officer nervous. thats how many shootings have started on T-stops... driver jumps out for no reason and starts shooting at the cop car. Look at how many there are on Utube.

 

[txinvestigator]

When stopped, before the LEO gets to your car, put the gun in the glove compartment.

BAD ADVICE!!! DO NOT handle your firearm as the officer approaches. it is a good way to find HIS pistol screwed into your ear.

 

[Texan2]

BAD ADVICE!!! DO NOT handle your firearm as the officer approaches. it is a good way to find HIS pistol screwed into your ear.

Correct!!!! Give that man a cigar! Gun in hand is bad on traffic stop!

 

[txinvestigator]

Correct!!!! Give that man a cigar! Gun in hand is bad on traffic stop!

But I'm such a simpleton and need to open my mind........

 

[Texan2]

But I'm such a simpleton and need to open my mind........

consider the source....some good ideas, but a bit extreme.

 

[JKTex]

BAD ADVICE!!! DO NOT handle your firearm as the officer approaches. it is a good way to find HIS pistol screwed into your ear.

Correct!!!! Give that man a cigar! Gun in hand is bad on traffic stop!

Whew, I'm glad someone jumped on that quick!!!!

 

[txinvestigator]

Whew, I'm glad someone jumped on that quick!!!!

I was worried you might be playing with your gun as cop approached you.