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M4 "pigtail" gas tube modification?

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  • Lomotil

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    Dec 5, 2008
    18
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    The Alamo City
    Hi...

    Relatively new to the site, but wanted to ask opinions on a sales pitch thrown at me during a recent gun show.

    When I mentioned that I'd recently (the night before, oddly enough,) built an M4, a vendor asked if I'd "pigtailed" the gas tube (along with offering his gunsmithing services.)

    Apparently, the premise is that the platform and the round was specifically designed for a 20" barrel, and comparable gas tube length. His argument was that the shortened barrel of the M4 gave rise to compression issues, which would be rectified by extending, and looping, the gas return around the barrel, to simulate the original 20" length.

    He also credited misfires, jams, etc., with the shortened barrel & gas return system, but I'm not entirely convinced.

    Does anyone have any info or experience with either the rifle itself, or this particular modification to it?

    For reference: DPMS lower, 2 lb trigger, DPMS, chrome-moly M4 upper, 5.56, 1x9, and an itchy trigger finger. Only one round fired through it so far.

    I'm more familiar with my AK-47, and it's generous tolerances when it comes to various ammunition, etc. (not to imply that I don't maintain my guns.) - This is just the first AR-15 variant I've built, and I wonder if his claim has any merit, or if he was just trying to stir up business.

    Any info is greatly appreciated. :)
    Target Sports
     

    TSU45

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    Jun 6, 2008
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    San Marcos, Tx
    I think that whole pigtail argument is a load of bulls#$@. I've never met anyone who actually has one of those gas tubes. My 14.5" works just fine without one.

    You should of asked him if the military "pigtails" the gas tubes on their thousands of M4's.
     

    TSU45

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    Jun 6, 2008
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    San Marcos, Tx
    He also credited misfires, jams, etc., with the shortened barrel & gas return system, but I'm not entirely convinced.

    Right.....Misfires from the shortened barrel and gas system.

    I get tired of that element of gun show gypsy dealers and their useless sales pitches. Did he offer you some Extreme Shock ammo as well? Cause it's the bestest and will probably get banned real soon. Lucky for you he's got 100rds left.
     

    Lomotil

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    Dec 5, 2008
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    The Alamo City
    Thanks for all the replies, folks. I wasn't too sure about it, and had never heard of that problem before. He had his sales pitch down, though, and I couldn't help but get that feeling like I was someone that only knows how to put gas into a car, and the mechanic is trying to sell me a new flux capacitor that'll save me money somewhere down the line...

    Did he offer you some Extreme Shock ammo as well? Cause it's the bestest and will probably get banned real soon. Lucky for you he's got 100rds left.

    Ha! Not exactly - but there were definitely those kinda people there... And the people were eating it up. I almost ordered a DPMS Kitty Kat 7" upper for a future project online a few weeks ago for somewhere around $600 - Saw the same damn thing (minus the quad-rail) with a price tag of over $1,000. I chuckled, as I moved to the next booth. Several hours later, it was gone. Simply amazing.

    This 'gas tube' guy's gimmick was selling what he called "Obama Tubes" - Insulated PVC pipe "time capsules" in varying sizes, for various sized weapons, in the event that all firearms are confiscated, and someone would feel more comfortable with theirs buried in the ground, rather than pointed between the eyes of whomever tries to collect them door-to-door.
     

    lilricky2

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    Aug 17, 2008
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    S.E. Houston
    I do alot of AR work. The pigtail tube actually can solve a gas pressure issue but to arbitrarily stick one on an AR is preposterous. It can just as easily cause a problem. When set up correctly the platform works as well as anything out there. Whatever you do, don't make random chages to the gas system without understanding how it works. The number one problem I see is people drilling out the barrel gas port because of a percieved extraction problem. Guess what, overdrilling the gas port causes an extraction problem so people just keep making it larger thinking it needs more gas pressure. Test drive the rifle with good ammo and see how it functions before you make any changes. Just my 2 cents worth.

    Rick
     

    TSU45

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    Jun 6, 2008
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    San Marcos, Tx
    Did the bolt lock back on the empty mag when you fired the one test round? If it did then you are probably good to go on your gas system.
     

    idleprocess

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW.com
    This 'gas tube' guy's gimmick was selling what he called "Obama Tubes" - Insulated PVC pipe "time capsules" in varying sizes, for various sized weapons, in the event that all firearms are confiscated, and someone would feel more comfortable with theirs buried in the ground, rather than pointed between the eyes of whomever tries to collect them door-to-door.

    And how many rubes bought them on credit card? And were seen leaving the premises with them?
     

    Sneakyabn

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    Dec 9, 2008
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    Pasadena
    I have built a hundred or so Ar's in the last few years and I have only put one of the pig-tails on. It was on a 10.5 in. upper and it was per his request. I have built several other 10.5 uppers with a standard gas tube and have not had any problems out of them. As a matter of fact I hve had more issue's out of 16 inch uppers than any thing else...go figure.
     

    Lomotil

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    Dec 5, 2008
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    The Alamo City
    Did the bolt lock back on the empty mag when you fired the one test round? If it did then you are probably good to go on your gas system.

    It did. So far, I've only put that one round through it. I'm going to follow the fire-clean method of breaking the barrel in, but a family emergency came up, and I have put it off for now.

    Thanks for the replies, folks. I'll be back in the swing of things in a week or so.
     

    TAZ

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    Oct 17, 2008
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    Round Rock
    Of the carbines Ihave gone through not a one needed a pig tail or any other mod. Neither do the M4's being issued by the thousands. Unless your weapon is having problems dont try to fix it. Even if your weapon was having gas related issues, the pigtail would be my last choice. I'd swap the barrel for a mid length carbine first.
     

    Lomotil

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    Dec 5, 2008
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    The Alamo City
    Still haven't fired anything more through it... Going to follow most of the guidelines with regard to cleaning/shooting/cleaning through the first few dozen rounds...

    No plans to modify the gas system in it - if there's any gas systems that need modifying, it has to do with my diet, and not my firearms...

    Just wondering how adamant one has to be when following those rules (about cleaning after every round, etc...)
     

    kingofwylietx

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW area.....Wylie.
    Just wondering how adamant one has to be when following those rules (about cleaning after every round, etc...)

    Depends who you ask. If you want to spend a day or two searching AR forums, you'll find that MOST say:

    Chrome-lined barrel - Go shoot it, have fun. Clean it when you get back home.
    Any other barrel - follow the shoot/clean/shoot method.
     

    DarkRook

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    Jun 22, 2008
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    East Houston Area
    Speaking of Gas Tubes

    :sign0101:
    No really meaning to hijack, just expand.
    Anyone out there have one, ever installed, or shot an AR with one of the Gas Piston Retrofit Conversion Kits on it?

    If so how do you like it. Does it really make a difference? If so what are the differences?
     

    kingofwylietx

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    DFW area.....Wylie.
    :sign0101:
    No really meaning to hijack, just expand.
    Anyone out there have one, ever installed, or shot an AR with one of the Gas Piston Retrofit Conversion Kits on it?

    If so how do you like it. Does it really make a difference? If so what are the differences?

    I'm interested in this as well. The only difference is that it keeps everything cleaner and cooler, since the piston transfers the expanding gas energy into a mechanical push of the rod. AR's supposedly run better when clean & cool. It also is supposed to cut down on cleaning time since they don't get as dirty.

    Maybe you should start a new thread with title "ar gas piston conversion kit thoughts". A lot more people would see it, since it wouldn't be buried deep in here.
     
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