ARJ Defense ad

Another what if...

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    I'm probably leaving myself open for a few burns here, but it's my first topic so please be gentle.;) Lets say I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path and stops me in the middle of the street. He then approaches me cussing and grabs me by the arm while I'm still sitting in my car. The man is well over twice my weight, and I'm now fearfull for my well being. Would it then be unlawful to implement a handgun as protection, and if so what options of defense am I permitted by law? Thank you for any help you can give me regarding this question.
    Capitol Armory ad
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    I'm not a lawyer!

    First off, I want to stress that we opt for deadly force only as a last resort. Given your parameters, it could be argued that Texas PC Section 9.32 presumes your belief that deadly force was reasonable:

    Penal Code Section 9.32
    Deadly Force in Self Defense

    The actor's belief that the deadly force was immediately necessary is presumed to be reasonable if the actor knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

    Unlawfully entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    Unlawfully removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment of the actor;


    Be sure you can articulate a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a 3rd party.
     

    .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?
     

    40Arpent

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jul 16, 2008
    7,061
    31
    Houston
    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush...as they say.
     

    .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    Sorry, I tend to be dense at times. I know the meaning, but am having trouble understanding. Do you mean the circumstances could/would articulate said reasonable fear?
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    Thanks for the quick response. So, in your opinion, would the argument of "...attempting to enter unlawfully, the actor's ... vehicle" and/or "...attempting to remove unlawfully, the actor from the actor's ... vehicle" not hold up on it's own?

    It might, but you never know where things will go in court. A liberal-minded judge may issue jury instructions to determine whether or not you had reasonable and prudent, and immediate fear for you life. Even though the Penal Code addresses this, you never know where things will go in the courtroom. This is why we have the Castle Doctrine.

    The more supporting factors you have on your side, the better. And remember, how you articulate the event to the police (or more correctly, to your attorney) can make or break your case.
     

    .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    A piece of the Castle Doctrine...
    "(a) ...reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used unlawfully and with force was committing or attempting to commit certain acts, ..."

    I think this answers my question. Considering the demeanor and actions of the person force would be used against, in this situation, I would interpret deadly force justified. I hope I'm not mistaken, or perhaps I should not own a gun if so. :confused:
     

    glockrocker

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 11, 2008
    118
    1
    Austin, TX
    how you articulate the event to the police (or more correctly, to your attorney) can make or break your case.

    That's something I'm curious about. If I'm ever in the situation where I had to use deadly force. Lets say for instance, I'm watching tv in the living room and I hear my front door being jimmy'd. I grab my gun and aim, when the perp walks in, I identify him as somebody that shouldnt be there and put him down. Now obviously the first people who are going to want to know what happened will be the police, should I clam up and politely tell them I want a lawyer before I give any details (and propably go to jail while I wait for one) or while feeling confident enough I broke no laws and I was the true victim, tell the police what happened and hope for the best. What would any of you do?
     

    .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    I think I would communicate details through my lawyer whether I felt 100% in the right or wrong. It's just the smart thing to do in a system like ours.
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,735
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    I'm probably leaving myself open for a few burns here, but it's my first topic so please be gentle.;) Lets say I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path and stops me in the middle of the street. He then approaches me cussing and grabs me by the arm while I'm still sitting in my car. The man is well over twice my weight, and I'm now fearfull for my well being. Would it then be unlawful to implement a handgun as protection, and if so what options of defense am I permitted by law? Thank you for any help you can give me regarding this question.

    What would prevent you from driving off once he got beside the car....ie: no longer blocking your path...I am pretty sure I would try that before I would shoot somebody, even if he was grabbing at me.
     

    .45 Delivery

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 26, 2009
    13
    1
    Hurst
    That's exactly what I did, but had I run him over/struck him with my car, I'd be in a lot of trouble. He's still a pedestrian with right of way.
     

    glockrocker

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 11, 2008
    118
    1
    Austin, TX
    I think I would communicate details through my lawyer whether I felt 100% in the right or wrong. It's just the smart thing to do in a system like ours.


    You don't think the police report would make you look bad in court, shooting someone then not wanting to talk about it. I guess I would call 911 before (if possible), or after the fact. Tell them the jist of it, then let a lawyer handle the rest if charges are filed. IDK, can any LEO's chime in?
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
    TGT Supporter
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    59,735
    96
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    That's exactly what I did, but had I run him over/struck him with my car, I'd be in a lot of trouble. He's still a pedestrian with right of way.

    Not in as much trouble if you had shot him though under the same circumstances......dunno....I might be wrong.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    A piece of the Castle Doctrine...
    "(a) ...reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used unlawfully and with force was committing or attempting to commit certain acts, ..."

    I think this answers my question. Considering the demeanor and actions of the person force would be used against, in this situation, I would interpret deadly force justified. I hope I'm not mistaken, or perhaps I should not own a gun if so. :confused:

    That's actually a separate issue defining conditions under which you would not, based on PC 46.02, be required to retreat when faced with a situation justifying your use of deadly force.
     

    kingofwylietx

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 29, 2008
    1,424
    21
    DFW area.....Wylie.
    I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path .

    This bothers me. You are already giving pretext and knowledge as to why there would be a confrontation.

    We have people speed down our street every once in a while. Lots of us have kids and find it offensive that somebody would burn down our residential street at 45mph when it's posted at 30mph. A few of us have confronted individuals, telling them to slow down because they could hit a child. We've never pulled anyone out of their car, though I'd like to sometimes.

    Long story short.........you may prefer to change your driving habits rather than look for a way to justify killing somebody you said would be upset at your speed. It's much easier to live with going a little slower in the neighborhoods than having someones death on your conscience.

    Surely you can safely get away from a pedestrian when you are in a car.

    I hope you are not saying that you would rather shoot somebody than slow down?
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    That's something I'm curious about. If I'm ever in the situation where I had to use deadly force. Lets say for instance, I'm watching tv in the living room and I hear my front door being jimmy'd. I grab my gun and aim, when the perp walks in, I identify him as somebody that shouldnt be there and put him down. Now obviously the first people who are going to want to know what happened will be the police, should I clam up and politely tell them I want a lawyer before I give any details (and propably go to jail while I wait for one) or while feeling confident enough I broke no laws and I was the true victim, tell the police what happened and hope for the best. What would any of you do?

    I would call 911, request police and ambulance and tell them something like "I was just forced to shoot a man who was breaking into my house." Basically, establish that you're the good guy, tell them the services you need and where you're located. That's it. Shut up after that.

    When the cops arrive, your conversation is brief:

    YOU: Officer! Thank God you're here.

    OFFICER: Who are you?

    YOU: I'm the one who called you.

    OFFICER: Who's he? (Pointing to the dead guy.)

    YOU: That's the man who tried to murder me/break into my home/etc.

    OFFICER: How many shots did you fire?

    YOU: I'll be happy to address your questions once I've consulted with my attorney.

    At this point, you clam up until you've talked to you attorney. He will most likely tell you to keep your mouth shut. If the situation isn't fairly straight forward, you'll find yourself spending the night in jail.
     

    Old Man of the Mountain

    Active Member
    BANNED!!!
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 5, 2009
    327
    1
    I'm probably leaving myself open for a few burns here, but it's my first topic so please be gentle.;) Lets say I'm delivering a pizza, and a pedestrian thinking I'm driving too fast obstructs my path and stops me in the middle of the street. He then approaches me cussing and grabs me by the arm while I'm still sitting in my car. The man is well over twice my weight, and I'm now fearfull for my well being. Would it then be unlawful to implement a handgun as protection, and if so what options of defense am I permitted by law? Thank you for any help you can give me regarding this question.

    A real case similar to that (as discussed in a CHL class I attended) a man in the drivers seat of a vehicle being attacked by multiple punches from a single attacker, in a case of mistaken identity.

    He showed the attacker the gun, told him to back off, the attacker persisted, and got himself shot.

    The case was placed before a Grand Jury, who sided with the innocent man seated in his auto who had not instigated anything, and legally defended himself.
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    14,204
    96
    Ft Worth, TX
    Rather than look for reason you can shoot someone, you should be looking for alternatives.

    Use of deadly force is serious business, with repercussions for you, your family, the other person and his family. You are looking at a grand jury appearance (how mch will THAT cost you?), news media in your face (we know how THEY feel about the users of deadly force), emotional and other issues. It is BEST to always avoid using deadly force when possible.

    Does your car have reverse? Can you drive forward with the person standing next to you? Could you cary OC to defend yourself in such a situation and save yourself a LOT of headache?

    If you are driving recklessly in a neighborhood the other person may be lawful in arresting you for a breach of the peace committed in his presence or view.


    In the other scenarion where you door is forced open and you se a person who you identify as "someone who shouldn't be there" and "put him down".

    AAACK! How about drawing down on the person and ordering his to stop?


    I am afraid too many here have no clue as to the realities of using deadly force and all of the potential consequences.
     

    glockrocker

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 11, 2008
    118
    1
    Austin, TX
    I propably would shout at him before firing, but the second he makes a suggestive move, Im firing. Just better him than me and he shouldnt of been there. I really have no love for home invaders.
     
    Top Bottom