To crimp or not to crimp ? the 223 rem.

[TexMex247]

Ok, so I like to think that I have mastered the reloading of several pistol cals. However, when it comes to rifle cartridges, I am a bit of a newbie. I currently have only tried a few batches of 223 rounds for my AR and mini14 but have dreams of one day reloading my .280 as well. Anyhow, I see bullets everywhere with cannelures but just as many without. Can someone with experience point me in the right direction ? So far I have batched out only three sets of 20 rds, all loaded with IMR 4198(19-19.5gr), 55 and 60 gr bullets and all without crimps. My first experience with 45LC rounds is that at the lower end of the loading spectrum(near minimum loads), I had poor seal-ability of brass in the chamber and plenty of pressure blasting back at my face when I failed to use a full crimp(1 turn on a lee crimper). Should I expect the same with my 223 loads, or are cannelures and tight crimps just there to keep the bullets seated ? Anyways, any advice is better than blasting unburned powder into my eyes...so I'll take your 2 cents if you have it. - Texmex

 

[baboon]

The thing to remember is if them bullets creep to far forward in you magazine then you got problems. I say crimp. Hell I even have a C&H Tool & Die cannelure cutter for those with out.

 

[Bullseye Shooter]

I do not crimp for either my AR or my .308 M1 Garand. Yep, the bullet will creep slightly when it is chambered, but I've never had a problem with cartridges in the magazine. The neck tension from when you seat the bullets is sufficient.

 

[cuate]

I never crimp .223 , the neck to bullet snugness is sufficient for all rifles I shoot....AR, Ruger, Golani, TC Contender....

I tried to crimp one time and perhaps die wasnt adjusted properly, cases set back and wouldn't chamber.

 

[glock9]

The danger of not crimping in a semi Auto (AR-15) is the risk of higher pressures if there is bullet setback which can lead to KABOOMS

 

[Texas1911]

The danger of not crimping in a semi Auto (AR-15) is the risk of higher pressures if there is bullet setback which can lead to KABOOMS

The crimp causes increased burn rate, and higher pressure, in it's own right.

I personally don't see how bullet set-back in the .223 could cause excessive pressure to the point of failure. If there is little to no tension in the neck, the bullet is going to expel as soon as case pressure increases. I've seen alot of complete set-backs in .223 ammo and never a case rupture as a result of excessive pressure. Not saying it hasn't happened, just I've never seen it on the range.

I personally would crimp, or set a high neck tension on, my .223 for a semi-auto, just for reliability reasoning as well as preventing the set-back issue. That and brass is virtually free for me.

 

[TexMex247]

Performance of non-crimped bullets

Well, the range results always tell the truth. Unfortunately the truth is that A: either I loaded these too lightly or B: I need to crimp these rounds. After firing off just a few, I had a jam where the bolt did not cycle back far enough to catch the back of the next round. They flew downrange with a wicked 'zing' and great accuracy but my semi-auto became a single shot with regular frequency. It is also true that my loads were near the lower end of the spectrum, so I duplicated those loads with a collet style crimp to finish them off. We will see if these cycle the bolt properly and still group well. I also batched some with progressively heavier loads of powder still all a half grain or more below max. I'll let everyone know how they turn out.

 

[Bullseye Shooter]

Crimping will have little or no effect on whether or not your rounds eject properly. Sounds like you have something else going on; possibly insufficient lube or a dirty rifle, but it would take some hands-on time to figure it out. Granted, that is a very light load, but it should still function okay. There are better powders for the .223 like Varget, H335 (my favorite) or RL 15.

 

[TexMex247]

Maybe you can tell me where I've gone wrong Bullseye. I typically only oil the bolt, charging handle, sear and lock pins(on lower) when I clean. I never let then gun go through more than 100 rds. between cleanings. I also shot some monarch 55gr brass cased sp bullets in the same session that shot flawlessly. I 'm starting to think it's all powder charge. - Texmex

 

[Bullseye Shooter]

I'm scratching my head a little, since if the rifle is relatively clean including the chamber and you fired off some factory stuff okay, even your light load should function okay. My Speer book shows you started with their recommend beginning load (H4198 not IMR 4198), but there are no disclaimers about it not functioning in an AR, which is what you would think Speer would mention. And my Lyman book has the same loads using H4198 and they used a Colt AR as the test rifle and there is no mention of any functioning problems.

 

[TexMex247]

I have seen slightly different reload data for IMR 4198 vs H4198. They are very similar but I don't think loads can be used interchangeably. Another guy at the range that day was having the same problem with a new AR, he was using factory new Hornady V-max loads. It improved as he shot, so maybe it was breakin' in. My Armalite has seen less than 1000 rounds through it, but has never had a single hiccup with any factory or military load. I'll see how this next batch shoots soon.

 

[Rifleman55]

Ok, so I like to think that I have mastered the reloading of several pistol cals. However, when it comes to rifle cartridges, I am a bit of a newbie. I currently have only tried a few batches of 223 rounds for my AR and mini14 but have dreams of one day reloading my .280 as well. Anyhow, I see bullets everywhere with cannelures but just as many without. Can someone with experience point me in the right direction ? So far I have batched out only three sets of 20 rds, all loaded with IMR 4198(19-19.5gr), 55 and 60 gr bullets and all without crimps. My first experience with 45LC rounds is that at the lower end of the loading spectrum(near minimum loads), I had poor seal-ability of brass in the chamber and plenty of pressure blasting back at my face when I failed to use a full crimp(1 turn on a lee crimper). Should I expect the same with my 223 loads, or are cannelures and tight crimps just there to keep the bullets seated ? Anyways, any advice is better than blasting unburned powder into my eyes...so I'll take your 2 cents if you have it. - Texmex

I use a Lee crimp die on all of my 223, mine are fired in an AR or a mini14, i have had some problems with a light bullet pull leading to accuracy problems, and setback problems

 

[ForneyRider]

I only (roll) crimp 41 Mag and 30-30. I taper crimp the 45 ACP, as I have gotten better feeding in my 1911.

Normally, .223 and other bottle neck cartridges, that are not tube-fed, do not need a roll crimp.

Hodgdon website has excellent load data. I have their handout that you can get at a reloading supply store, which is handy at the reload bench.

I started roll crimping the 41 after having issues like you mentioned. I get more consistent loads with the roll crimp for the 41.

 

[ForneyRider]

Some Federal Power Shok 50gr ammo (LC brass with crimped primer) had loose bullets and no crimp. The neck felt loose. These were excellent in accuracy department. I didn't load the loose necked one.

 

[TexMex247]

Range report #2

Ok, second time at the range with newly batched loads. This time, I crimped them all lightly with the Lee factory crimp die. The first ten fired off flawlessly even at my lowest load level(19.5gr IMR4198). Then the trouble began again. The hollow point load also shot well with maybe one FTF(feed) where the bolt did not fully cycle. The next batch of medium loads(19.8gr) had several FTFs. I started thinking it may be my new clip, so I went back to the trusty Magpul clips which have never failed me before. As I got to the hottest load of 19.9gr the bullets started to group exceptionally well but I once again got several FTFs. I am still puzzled by this phenomena and will now change brass. I had been using Lake city and WCC military brass that had been shot X? I think I will finally try to load up some virgin winchester brass with full crimp and an even heavier load. The final straw was when the 3rd case out of about 100 loaded split into 2 pieces upon ejection. I may never re-use military brass again. I know my gun shoots and cycles all other factory/military rounds flawlessly so I'm still not sure where I have gone wrong. Please advise if you have been down this road before. - Texmex

 

[ForneyRider]

I shoot a lot of LC brass and some WCC and FC.

The LC brass was once fired brass by me, as it was Federal Power Shok 50gr JHP ammo.

I don't crimp and use a Lee FL sizer die. I've had no issues. Some of this stuff has been fired several times. I trim, chamfer, deburr etc. all the brass with Lee and Redding stuff.

Not sure what your bullet size is, but review the Hodgdon data online for your load.

 

[TexMex247]

Range report #3

I think I need to start looking elsewhere for my bolt cycling problem. At first I was sure it was the uncrimped low power loads. Now I'm thinking it is the C.O.L.s.. I have progressively increased powder charges but keep having the same issues. Even using the Lee factory crimper, I keep having issues. The one bright spot, I finally had a batch of 20, 60gr Sierra bullets all pop-off just fine. They had been set at a C.O.L. of 2.200" instead of my usual length of 2.250". Obviously the seating depth is playing a big factor. The other batch I produced with a duplicate powder charge with the same equipment and brass had a few FTFs(feeding) at the C.O.L. of 2.250". I think it's time to shorten them all up a little. In spite of it all, I think I will continue to crimp everything I ever reload, from here to eternity. Maybe one more range report will be in order, hopefully just full of good news !

 

[aerod1]

I always use the "Lee Factory Crimp Die" on my 223 cartridges.