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9x21

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  • SIG_Fiend

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    9x21 is primarily a European cartridge, though I think it has seen some adoption in South America and parts of the middle east and Asia. It's my understanding that the intent behind it was to offer a cartridge of different dimensions so as to be different from the NATO standard 9x19, as some countries do not allow civilians to own firearms in "military calibers". I may be off on this, so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    One thing to keep in mind with 9x21 is, as far as I'm aware, the cartridge is NOT capable of handling significantly increased loadings. I've heard in the past that people have gotten ideas from 9x23 Winchester, which can be loaded extremely hot for a 9mm cartridge, that somehow the same could be done with 9x21. That is not the case, and it doesn't have quite the same potential. I figure SAAMI spec pressure levels, but I don't believe 9x21 can be pushed substantially hotter than standard pressure levels.

    Anyways, in America, there is basically no point to this caliber, so I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire something in it unless you're just wanting to add something different to your collection.
     

    London

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    9x21 is primarily a European cartridge, though I think it has seen some adoption in South America and parts of the middle east and Asia. It's my understanding that the intent behind it was to offer a cartridge of different dimensions so as to be different from the NATO standard 9x19, as some countries do not allow civilians to own firearms in "military calibers".

    I have heard that as well. So you're saying it's pretty much on par power-wise with 9x19? Way to go, Euro gun-grabbers! Make it illegal to own 9x19, offer up its nearly identical brother instead! I wonder if .45 GAP is legal in places like Mexico which ban all "Military ammunition?"

    Is there any, even slight, advantage to having a race pistol chambered in x21 rather than x19? A tiny bit more accuracy perhaps?
     

    Acera

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    Is there any, even slight, advantage to having a race pistol chambered in x21 rather than x19? A tiny bit more accuracy perhaps?

    I would think if you are wanting to go that route, the .38 Super would be a lot easier path and has more power and uses the same bullet.

    (9x21 115 gr =>420 ft/lbs./1300 fps., .38 Super 115 gr =>497 ft/lbs./1395 fps.)
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    I would think if you are wanting to go that route, the .38 Super would be a lot easier path and has more power and uses the same bullet.

    (9x21 115 gr =>420 ft/lbs./1300 fps., .38 Super 115 gr =>497 ft/lbs./1395 fps.)

    You're right on the money from what I understand.
     

    noylj

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    Gee, I've been shooting 9x21 for about 20 years. Load it long like a .38 Super and run 'em hot.
    If you load it to 9x19 COL, then it is simply a 9x19 that head spaces funny.
    For whatever reason, the 9x19 and 9x21 can take more pressure than a .38 Super case. Love people talking about what they have never used.
    Remember, don't buy any 9x21 guns. Just let me know about them, please.
     

    Acera

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    Gee, I've been shooting 9x21 for about 20 years. Load it long like a .38 Super and run 'em hot.
    If you load it to 9x19 COL, then it is simply a 9x19 that head spaces funny.
    For whatever reason, the 9x19 and 9x21 can take more pressure than a .38 Super case. Love people talking about what they have never used.
    Remember, don't buy any 9x21 guns. Just let me know about them, please.

    I have shot .38 super, and it's max pressure (36,500) is more than the more niche, less powerful, less popular 9x21 (34,084). Maybe you use cheap ass cases or push your loads past max safe pressures to shorten the life of the cases.

    Don't need to use one to talk about how deficient it is in performance, popularity, guns chambered for it, etc. No reason to waste good money on one like that. IMHO :peace:
     

    TexMex247

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    I love my 38 super but my nines end up seeing a lot more daylight and range time. If I ever want to turn it up a notch, I'll get a 357 sig or 9x23 Winchester much sooner than I'd get a 9x21.
     

    ROGER4314

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    I went to the Baytown Academy store and saw 9-10 boxes of 9x21 on the shelf. I had to ask about what it was and researched it when I got home. Still, it was interesting to see that unusual cartridge in stock and it gave me a chance to learn something new.

    Flash
     

    Acera

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    The Academy in Webster has this round on the shelves. You guys even know a person who has a gun that can shoot this stuff? They have dredged up all the ammo they can find hoping to sell it to flippers and hoarders, LOL.

    581120.jpg
     

    Das Jared

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    The Academy in Webster has this round on the shelves. You guys even know a person who has a gun that can shoot this stuff? They have dredged up all the ammo they can find hoping to sell it to flippers and hoarders, LOL.

    581120.jpg

    The HK MP7 shoots it.

    sent from Jennifer Lawrence's bedroom
     

    57K

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    Obviously, you guys have not seen European CIP/PSI data like V-V once provided where they loaded 9 x 21mm to 42,800 PSI/CIP. Unfortunately, American handloaders seem to be a bit slow on the uptake. The 9 x 21mm was introduced in Italy to get around the law that forbid them to use military cartridges like the 9 x 19mm. The Italian solution was to lengthen the 9 x 19mm case by 2mm to 9x 21mm. The OACL max recommendation for 9 x 21mm is 1.161"/29.5mm. Other than than that, it's just an elongated 9 x 19mm case.

    With 147 gr. JHPs in 9 x19mm cases loaded to the OACL for 9 x 21mm, velocities over 1150 FPS are easily doable provided you use one of about 3 powders. Since a 9mm 147 gr. Bullet has a greater sectional density than a 180 gr. .4005" (.40 S&W) driven supersonic where the 180 gr. .40 S&W is subsonic, there's not a .40 S&W load that really improves on that. 9mm pistols must be throated long enough for such loads and many are not. Some that are being the Ruger P and SR polymer series, Glock 9mms and the SIG/Sauer P-226.

    Before CZ opened shop in the US when their pistols were imported by Magnum Research, the 9 x 21mm chambering was offered, but few understood it's potential. In the past I have worked up loads with 147 gr XTPs loaded to the 9 x 21mm's OACL Max of 1.161"/29.5mm OACL using 9 x 19mm cases using 3N37 and AA#7. You'll have to research quite a ways back, but supersonic velocity is capable at under 9mm +P pressure (38,500 PSI) and since the 9 x 19mm's case-head is considerably stronger than the .40 S&Ws, kinda makes you wonder how many reloaders understand pressure geometry. Now boutique ammo-makers like Underwood, Double-Tap and Buffalo Bore make such loads but because of chamber length restrictions with many 9 x 19mm pistols, their loads must be accordingly short which forces them to carry a +P+ designation.
     
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    ROGER4314

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    Good information 57K! Please try using paragraph breaks. The info is very good but it's hard as Hell to read. Thanks!

    "Cartridges of the World" has a very small section on the 9x21. It says that everything about the 9x21 pistols is very similar to a 9x19 including the magazines. The chamber length is the exception. Ballistics are very similar.

    Flash
     
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    Rifleman55

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    Years ago the IPSC crowd was using it to make major power factor, 9mm para was not allowed, this was before the .38 super, newer powders allowed .38 super to make major in race guns. The reason that the .40 and .38 super pushed the old .45acp aside is round count, most competitors want as many rounds in the gun as possible.
     

    57K

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    Good information 57K! Please try using paragraph breaks. The info is very good but it's hard as Hell to read. Thanks!

    "Cartridges of the World" has a very small section on the 9x21. It says that everything about the 9x21 pistols is very similar to a 9x19 including the magazines. The chamber length is the exception. Ballistics are very similar.

    Flash

    Is that better, Rog? No excuse for me doing that since I am a published novelist! Maybe you remember the old Gulfgate shopping center/mall? I grew up about 6 blocks away off of Texas 35 (Reveille).
     

    ROGER4314

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    Thanks for the paragraph breaks. It sure makes it easier to read!
    '
    GulfGate...........boy, that goes back a few years!

    Flash
     
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