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  • Ole Cowboy

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    I have been asked by some members in the Texas Senate to help draft legislation in defense of our 2nd Amendment Rights in Texas, especially ammunition. They to insure that legislation is passed to insure that backdoor gun control is not used to get around the 2nd A. Things like the use of lead in bullets, excessive taxes on guns and ammo etc.

    As I draft up my recommendations I would like to have your input, thoughts and views on how we accomplish protecting our rights. Some of you may know already that many states are proposing rules, regs and laws that effectively result in gun control without being gun control. No lead use in bullets, excessive taxes and local gun registration in city limits etc. My good friend and Texas Senator is a major 2nd A supporter and will lead the fight to protect us...

    Thank you and lets let this be a thread of good dialog, pros and cons and most of all sanity so we can achieve something...
    Guns International
     

    Vaquero

    Moving stuff to the gas prices thread.....
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    Admirable endeavor. I thank you and your friend. That being said, it is my beliefe that the repeal of existing laws that infringe on our rights should be the focus.
    Any new legislation will only strengthen the "box" we must operate in.
    Remove the box.
     

    Army 1911

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    Something along the lines of "In Texas, the right to keep and bear arms by its citizens shall not be infringed and this right includes but is not limited to all accouterments, accessories, and ammunition available past, present and future."
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    Admirable endeavor. I thank you and your friend. That being said, it is my beliefe that the repeal of existing laws that infringe on our rights should be the focus.
    Any new legislation will only strengthen the "box" we must operate in.
    Remove the box.
    While I concur with your thinking, what we are trying to prevent now is new laws being written that constrain our ability to keep our rights, such as excessive taxes on ammunition, the use of lead in our bullets. Of note is the fed have just shut down the last Lead smelter in the US, now we can mine lead but have to send it overseas for processing...
     

    Younggun

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    I would say a good set of preemption laws expanding on what we have to include ammunition and accessories. Might also consider adding knives to the preemption as many consider them just as protected by the 2A.

    As far as taxes, a law banning any new ones, at any level from city to state.
     

    FlashBang

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    Be it enacted that no rule nor law shall prohibit, limit, or constrain the sale, possession, manufacture or use of firearms ammunition in the Great State of Texas; nor shall any rule or law be enforced upon same, regardless if such rule or law shall be so written at any locality, county, federal or regulatory level.
     

    jordanmills

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    Be it enacted that no rule nor law shall prohibit, limit, or constrain the sale, possession, manufacture or use of firearms ammunition in the Great State of Texas; nor shall any rule or law be enforced upon same, regardless if such rule or law shall be so written at any locality, county, federal or regulatory level.

    Needs criminal penalty for attempts to enforce such laws.
     

    dustycorgill

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    Be it enacted that no rule nor law shall prohibit, limit, or constrain the sale, possession, manufacture or use of firearms ammunition in the Great State of Texas; nor shall any rule or law be enforced upon same, regardless if such rule or law shall be so written at any locality, county, federal or regulatory level.

    Sounds solid, but as JordanMills says, criminal penalties for attempting to violate the legislation.
     

    Mreed911

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    Of note is the fed have just shut down the last Lead smelter in the US, now we can mine lead but have to send it overseas for processing...

    Which had been shown repeatedly to have no impact on ammunition production in SEVERAL threads here and elsewhere and was not an attempt at back door gun control.

    Admirable purpose but as others have stated - misguided, IMO. How about getting them to repeal 46.035 and 30.05/30.06 in their entirety, instead?
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    Which had been shown repeatedly to have no impact on ammunition production in SEVERAL threads here and elsewhere and was not an attempt at back door gun control.

    Admirable purpose but as others have stated - misguided, IMO. How about getting them to repeal 46.035 and 30.05/30.06 in their entirety, instead?
    Really, then when was the last time there were no lead smelters operating in the US?

    While its not banned nationwide (YET) it is in Ca and its a growing movement acorss the US. If you ban lead then they will need to find a suitable substitute, this will impact cost and ballistics, maybe good, maybe bad, maybe not at all but this is to been seen and you have no empirical evidence at all to backup anything you said!

    Perhaps you missed the point of this thread, I am seeking input on addressing possible future efforts to establish gun control thru backdoor measures, just as they have done in Ca with the banning of lead. If you have something to contribute then please do, if not there is nothing to see here...
     

    Mreed911

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    Really, then when was the last time there were no lead smelters operating in the US?

    While its not banned nationwide (YET) it is in Ca and its a growing movement acorss the US. If you ban lead then they will need to find a suitable substitute, this will impact cost and ballistics, maybe good, maybe bad, maybe not at all but this is to been seen and you have no empirical evidence at all to backup anything you said!

    You're right, I can't disprove a negative. But, from another thread...

    Having lived for years in the lead/zinc mining capital of the US (Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma), I have a different "take" on this closure. The "Smelter" takes lead/zinc from the Galena ore and refines it into bulk lead. Lead/zinc mining is almost non existent due to EPA regulations. In fact, much of the "Jack" mining land in those three states was declared a superfund EPA disaster! It's hard to run a smelter operation when ore isn't coming in to process.

    Here's some information about the golden days of Jack mining. I tromped over every inch of this area!

    http://www.geospectra.net/kite/picher/picher.htm

    http://schehrer2.homestead.com/hockerville1.html

    Incidentally, in the three state Jack mining area, you can see scores of refining and smelter ruins that closed when the mining played out.

    Most of our lead now, is recycled and that points to the best part of utilizing lead. You can recycle the material as many times as you wish. We just need to improve how we recycle lead and we'll be fine.

    Expect a price increase ......for sure but we've seen that already.

    Flash

    As for..

    Perhaps you missed the point of this thread, I am seeking input on addressing possible future efforts to establish gun control thru backdoor measures, just as they have done in Ca with the banning of lead. If you have something to contribute then please do, if not there is nothing to see here...

    ...good luck with those windmills. You've earned my unwatch/unsubscribe on this thread, as you asked.
     

    rushthezeppelin

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    I would love to see things like Constitutional Carry as well as any weapons made and sold in Texas are not subject to any current or future federal laws, but that isnt quite what you are asking for.

    While I realize the EPA going after lead smelters might not affect our ammo prices it is setting a dangerous precedent. I think their next target will be lead reclamation which most certainly will affect ammo prices. That would be one of the big ones I'd like to see legislation to prevent. Having state laws to nullify any Federal attacks on accessories would also be another good one. Of course backing these up with stiff criminal penalties is a must.
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    I would love to see things like Constitutional Carry as well as any weapons made and sold in Texas are not subject to any current or future federal laws, but that isnt quite what you are asking for.

    While I realize the EPA going after lead smelters might not affect our ammo prices it is setting a dangerous precedent. I think their next target will be lead reclamation which most certainly will affect ammo prices. That would be one of the big ones I'd like to see legislation to prevent. Having state laws to nullify any Federal attacks on accessories would also be another good one. Of course backing these up with stiff criminal penalties is a must.
    I like that, thank you.
     

    benenglish

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    If you're worried about bans on lead, require that any limits on lead use be proscribed unless a given level of pre-existing contamination is fully documented. Then set that level very high and make the documentation standards for showing it exists basically impossible.
     

    Younggun

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    If you're worried about bans on lead, require that any limits on lead use be proscribed unless a given level of pre-existing contamination is fully documented. Then set that level very high and make the documentation standards for showing it exists basically impossible.

    AHHH, using lib tactics against them. Well, tactic used by both parties at one point or another.
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    I have been asked by some members in the Texas Senate to help draft legislation in defense of our 2nd Amendment Rights in Texas, especially ammunition. They to insure that legislation is passed to insure that backdoor gun control is not used to get around the 2nd A. Things like the use of lead in bullets, excessive taxes on guns and ammo etc.

    As I draft up my recommendations I would like to have your input, thoughts and views on how we accomplish protecting our rights. Some of you may know already that many states are proposing rules, regs and laws that effectively result in gun control without being gun control. No lead use in bullets, excessive taxes and local gun registration in city limits etc. My good friend and Texas Senator is a major 2nd A supporter and will lead the fight to protect us...

    Thank you and lets let this be a thread of good dialog, pros and cons and most of all sanity so we can achieve something...

    How about instead of protecting our constantly attacked and dwindling 2A civil right, we go on the offensive for once? Its so infuriating to me that we have to continuously fund, defend, and fight to keep a right that is guaranteed to us as Americans... Why not go to bat with repeals against the hoops we have to jump through just to purchase a suppressor or how about fighting to lift bans on the importation of certain firearms, open carry i believe has been brought up as well, just a couple of many possible examples. Maybe, just maybe if we go for their throat instead of them going for ours we might just gain some ground back instead of feeling lucky that we got to keep what we had to begin with. I'm sure you were looking more for specifics relating to current firearm legislation, but I think It's high past time we start taking this in another direction aside from the ever present status quo.
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    I agree we need to be on the offensive and wish we were more so than we are. Things like suppressors and lifting bans my guess is that is at the federal level and our focus is just Texas. I too would like to see open carry and will bring that up for sure. It has been defeated before, but I do not know the reasons why, maybe it could be reworded or approached differently...thank you for your comments.
     

    shortround

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    I want to take this thread seriously, but you have not named the elected official you purport to be working with/for.

    Disclosure up front would be mighty helpful.

    As much as I respect the topic, it could be a Trojan Horse that puts us all into jeopardy. Re: 2A, which is a national issue, whereas the Texas Constitution addresses the right to keep and bear arms separately as a sovereign state right.

    How do we not know that you might be doing opposition research?

    Name names, and I'll be happy to share.
     
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