Are "No Knock Warrants" justified and are they worth the risk?

[breakingcontact]

Its unfortunate but too many of these cops want to play like they are soldiers overseas. If you have intel that some terrorist is making a bomb, and its good intel, surveil the place and raid it. But cops raiding relatively run of the mill criminals like they are searching for Bin Laden?

Its dumb police work. Thats what a lot of this comes down to. Maybe its not the LEAs fault. Due to budget cuts they cant do old school cop work where you...you know....actually build a case. So they go on what informants tell them, use manpower weapons and vehicles (ahem MRAPs) instead of their brains.

This ish is BIG in Texas too. No shortage of cop cheerleaders here.

Again...i am wildly conservative. Be hard on violent crime. Execute more scum. Separate the mentally ill from society. I support all of that and i support the cops who do their jobs right and most do. I guess i view the no knock warrant business as giving them a dangerous tool and also one that puts them in danger and puts the general populice in danger. Say the cops do a no knock warrant on my neighbor tonight but they hit my house instead? Im not a criminal so im not expecting them...

 

[Acera]

One other thing to consider is the others that are caught up in these raids. The extreme violence of action is also imposed on innocent occupants of the home at the same time. I know plenty here will condemn them as guilty by association and they should expect rough behavior if they are around a bad person, however some don't know that (like children) and they should have their rights considered also.

 

[txinvestigator]

Its unfortunate but too many of these cops want to play like they are soldiers overseas. If you have intel that some terrorist is making a bomb, and its good intel, surveil the place and raid it. But cops raiding relatively run of the mill criminals like they are searching for Bin Laden?

Its dumb police work. Thats what a lot of this comes down to. Maybe its not the LEAs fault. Due to budget cuts they cant do old school cop work where you...you know....actually build a case. So they go on what informants tell them, use manpower weapons and vehicles (ahem MRAPs) instead of their brains.

This ish is BIG in Texas too. No shortage of cop cheerleaders here.

Again...i am wildly conservative. Be hard on violent crime. Execute more s$#@!. Separate the mentally ill from society. I support all of that and i support the cops who do their jobs right and most do. I guess i view the no knock warrant business as giving them a dangerous tool and also one that puts them in danger and puts the general populice in danger. Say the cops do a no knock warrant on my neighbor tonight but they hit my house instead? Im not a criminal so im not expecting them...

You seem to want to come across as pro police, but you seem to be just the opposite. You want to sit and judge while knowing absolutely nothing about Law Enforcement or policing. And don't get me wrong, I like you. I think perhaps you should apply for a PD, go through the selection process, receive the training, earn your badge and then you will be in a position to judge.

Go ahead and attack me in response. It will just verify my belief.

 

[txinvestigator]

I don't know if the OP is referencing the recent one that was for the wrong dwelling. A LEO lost his life and the homeowner is in a lot of trouble and the warrant was executed at the wrong address.

That is one of my HUGE concerns. There is zero room for error on no knocks.

 

[Acera]

I think perhaps you should apply for a PD, go through the selection process, receive the training, earn your badge and then you will be in a position to judge.

Oh I really love these types of sentiment. "The only people that can judge the police are the police", LOL, what a load of crap.

Can you judge the quality of your home-builder/house without spending years building houses yourself???
Can you judge the quality of you car without being a mechanic or working in a factory that produces them?
Can you judge your family doctor without going to medical school?
Can you judge the quality of work done on the road in front of your house without being a civil engineer?
I could go on and on......................

 

[ROGER4314]

My home may not be worth a flip to anyone else but it's all I have and I consider it sacred. No one will enter this place without my permission.
That's all I have to say about this subject.

Flash

 

[Younggun]

Complicated question, ESP if you take out the chest thumping bravado.


IF the story of plain clothed cops entering the story is correct(I didn't read it), it sounds like a recipe for disaster. In a no-knock a homeowner only has a split second to realize the people entering are LE. Seems like they should make that identification pretty clear. I can also see that they may say it's difficult to surprise someone with vest with "POLICE" written across the front.

But I think anyone looking out the window would already be suspicious, I watch any unfamiliar vehicle closely and it's not often that someone pulls in my drive without being noticed.


To the other story, raid on a couple of pot plants. Story sounds fishy. Warning shot in the ceiling??? No, I don't say the cop "got what he deserved" for going in, that's BS.

Raiding over pot plants.....well, guess that depends on how you feel about pot. I don't personally don't think weed deserves that much attention, but it's a touchy subject. If there was a large operation I can't imagine the whole thing being destroyed because of a knock. I also don't know the guy and he could have decided that no one was gonna come in his house without his permission and now is trying o stay out of jail.



I can see a reason for having no-knocks, but it seems they should need ample justification for the increased risks for certain aspects.

 

[M. Sage]

You mentioned weapons, i understand that goes hand in hand with drugs but from what ive read the justification is to stop people from destroying the drugs.

You realize that generalizations are untrue, right? That's a fine example right there.

 

[M. Sage]

Oh I really love these types of sentiment. "The only people that can judge the police are the police", LOL, what a load of crap.

Can you judge the quality of your home-builder/house without spending years building houses yourself???
Can you judge the quality of you car without being a mechanic or working in a factory that produces them?
Can you judge your family doctor without going to medical school?
Can you judge the quality of work done on the road in front of your house without being a civil engineer?
I could go on and on......................

How dare employers judge the work of their employees!? Outrage, anger, gnashing of teeth... (and then me rolling my eyes.)

FWIW, I agree with you, just mocking the dumb assertion that TXI makes all the time that you can't judge cops without having been one.

 

[breakingcontact]

You seem to want to come across as pro police, but you seem to be just the opposite. You want to sit and judge while knowing absolutely nothing about Law Enforcement or policing. And don't get me wrong, I like you. I think perhaps you should apply for a PD, go through the selection process, receive the training, earn your badge and then you will be in a position to judge.

Go ahead and attack me in response. It will just verify my belief.

(cracks knuckles)

Christmas colors: you're green and I'm red

I had to get on my computer for this one!

You seem to want to come across as pro police, but you seem to be just the opposite.
Pro or anti police? I'm pro civilized police force doing intelligent police work serving the community. I'm anti-militarized police doing dumb/easy police work and hurting those they are supposed to protect.

You want to sit and judge while knowing absolutely nothing about Law Enforcement or policing.
I know absolutely nothing about LE/police work? Ummm, yes, you know more than I do. I know more than the average joe.

And don't get me wrong, I like you.
Glad you like me. Let's go to Dairy Queen sometime. Their milkshakes are awesome.

I think perhaps you should apply for a PD, go through the selection process, receive the training, earn your badge and then you will be in a position to judge.
Me apply for a PD? I did, I applied to be a state trooper with DPS. I was going through the hiring process until I got hired into my current job. No I didn't receive any training or have a badge, but I was in the process to be hired on. (I didn't just apply, I applied and they contacted me and I was supposed to go onto the next step.) So yes, I actually have wanted to be a police officer and would still find it very interesting, rewarding and frustrating I'm sure. I'd especially like to work as a police officer in a school or in other capacities with young people. I have considered working for the Department of Juvenile Corrections in my current line of work.

Additionally, I understand service and sacrifice. I signed the dotted line to die for the country if so called and did 8 years in the USAR.

As far as not being able to be in a position to judge unless you've "walked a mile in the shoes". There is a difference between judging someone and discerning. I respect police work as a profession, I respect a police officer or department unless I have reason not to and unfortunately some supply ample reasons not to respect them.

Go ahead and attack me in response. It will just verify my belief.
Me attack you? Nope, I'll attack your positions but not you.

***conclusion follows***

TXI, you are an interesting and well informed forum member and I'm glad you offer a lot of challenges around here. It's healthy, as is my dissent.

 

[breakingcontact]

You realize that generalizations are untrue, right? That's a fine example right there.

I should have said that the other way around. Those who are dealing in drugs are typically armed.

Does that make sense?

 

[M. Sage]

I should have said that the other way around. Those who are dealing in drugs are typically armed.

Does that make sense?

They're often armed, yes. But weapons going together with drugs is definitely not a given.

And I guess we probably don't need to get into the fact that drug dealers are armed because selling drugs is illegal, and not because of the drugs themselves.

 

[breakingcontact]

They're often armed, yes. But weapons going together with drugs is definitely not a given.

And I guess we probably don't need to get into the fact that drug dealers are armed because selling drugs is illegal, and not because of the drugs themselves.

Drug users being armed, probably not typically.

Drug dealers being armed? Of course.

 

[M. Sage]

Drug users being armed, probably not typically.

Drug dealers being armed? Of course.

Still not always.

 

[HKaltwasser]

I don't know if the OP is referencing the recent one that was for the wrong dwelling. A LEO lost his life and the homeowner is in a lot of trouble and the warrant was executed at the wrong address.

I don't see why the home owner is in a lot of trouble? It was the Departments mistake of getting the wrong address in the first place? Maybe they should triple check before they start kicking a man's castle in. Just a thought though. I personally think the department should face manslaughter charges, but that would be too rational of a thought.

It is terrible that a LEO lost his life, but I'm getting tired of hearing about these situations that seem to get more common. I heard of one , where a judge almost blew away a cop that was surrounding the wrong house. It got bad real quick but was fortunately defused. We seem to be getting more militant in our law inforcement.

 

[matefrio]

I think an attempt should be taken to take the person down outside the home.

Like the Waco incident. David Koresh was known to go out into the town, attend events like gunshows and got around regularly but they waited till he was held up in a fortified position?

 

[RetArmySgt]

The event that took place in College Station (actually about 30 miles out of CS) was reported locally as the officers were there to serve an arrest warrant. The officer was shot while still outside the house. After he was shot the other officers made entry.

 

[SC-Texas]

Come through my door and there will be blood, bodies.

 

[GPtwins]

I know that LEO ask themselves that very question. They know it is a dangerous activity and do enter lightly. That is why they are heavily armored. As for the usful, I guess that there still must be enough return on the investment of danger to continue.

The real danger, for society, is this becomes commonplace and the we do away with warrants entirely. After all, what is the point if we are just going to do it after the fact. There are exception to getting a warrant such as witnessing a crime in progress. One needs probable cause to get a warrant, that is where the informant comes in. I would guess that the informant is not beyond reproach because the officers chose to steak out the residence rather than use the information to get a search warrant.

 

[TwinGlocks]

I don't know if the OP is referencing the recent one that was for the wrong dwelling. A LEO lost his life and the homeowner is in a lot of trouble and the warrant was executed at the wrong address.

With all the home invasions that take place where the perpetrators impersonate LEO's, I don't know that I would convict someone if I was on the jury in such a case.