APOD Firearms

Advice/input/info. for AR gas piston system?

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  • Shooter McGavin

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    I posted this in the gun smithing section but haven't recieved any replies, with more traffic here I'm hoping someone can offer some insight.
    I'm starting another AR build and I'm gonna go with a piston system this round. From the research I've done thus far it would appear as though Adam Arms has the more recommended piston set up. I will be purchasing the barrel, upper receiver, and piston system all separately so I'll be starting with a clean slate. However I'm curious if anybody has already been down this road and can offer any advice.
    Would anyone recommend another company over Adam Arms for the piston system?
    Mainly I'm uncertain on whether to go with carbine or a mid-length piston set up on the "16 barrel or if it makes two chits either way?
    My second concern is the quality of the kits BCG, I can modify a BCG of my choosing to work with the system or purchase their BCG with the kit. I'm not sure on how the quality is compared to say Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, or Colt.
    Also, would anyone suggest upgrading to a heavier buffer to counter the additional mass of the piston?
    And finally, I'd really like to run a lite weight, slick, free-float tube but from what I've read the gas block creates a clearence issue with your average for end, so any recommendations with that would be nice.
    Sure do appreciate any input, thank ya much!
    Hurley's Gold
     

    Charlie

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    Rock River Arms sells a pistol with the piston driven system. What's the viability of building a pistol with a piston system and at a later date acquiring a stamp for an SBR to allow one to use a folding stock?
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    Wasn't really considering going in that direction with it, as of yet anyways. I got in on a lower group buy and just wanted to try out the piston system on one of the builds to see how I like it. I may venture into your suggestion for one of the next builds however. Thanks!
     

    Rangerscott

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    I have their 5.45 upper and it only comes in carbine lentgh. Would like to shoot a mid length from hearing how they shoot smoother than carbine length.
     

    Acera

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    I have assembled an AR with the Adams Arms kit, their customer service was good when a problem arose. The next one though, especially if it's a refit, will probably be a Bushmaster kit. Either way I would use the BCG designed for that kit, and not try to make something else work. Lot of the new piston BCGs are designed with anti-tilt features, unlike modified regular carriers.
     

    M. Sage

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    I don't trust the ones that use modified carriers. Hello, carrier tilt. Ghetto-ass crap.

    Unless you're shooting lots with a rifle that's suppressed, with a super short barrel and throwing in a good amount of full auto, the "piston guns" (a term I hate because a standard AR has a piston) are a solution for a non-existent problem on the user's end.

    On the supplier's end, it's a solution to the problem of "how do we get suckers to pry their wallets open and pay us stupid amounts of money for no good reason." And it's a very effective solution.
     

    Shooter McGavin

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    I don't trust the ones that use modified carriers. Hello, carrier tilt. Ghetto-ass crap.

    Unless you're shooting lots with a rifle that's suppressed, with a super short barrel and throwing in a good amount of full auto, the "piston guns" (a term I hate because a standard AR has a piston) are a solution for a non-existent problem on the user's end.

    On the supplier's end, it's a solution to the problem of "how do we get suckers to pry their wallets open and pay us stupid amounts of money for no good reason." And it's a very effective solution.

    I won't be running a suppressor and the barrel will be 16", no full auto either.
    I simply just want to run a gas piston set up as opposed to the DI gas system. I have other ARs and all of them are DI, I keep them clean and well lube I've yet to have any issues with any of them. There are pros and cons to both systems, to say one is better than the other is ultimately the opinion of the user.
     

    breakingcontact

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    I had an Osprey piston on a Colt 6920. No issues with it. Much cleaner and cooler on the bolt/BCG/chamber than DI. Limited handguard selection though.

    DI isnt bad but piston is better for me.
     

    Shorts

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    I echo what Sage said about the advantages of a gas piston system. It will really shine when suppressed, SBR &/or full auto.

    You don't have to shoot under those conditions though. Go for it.
     

    M. Sage

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    I won't be running a suppressor and the barrel will be 16", no full auto either.
    I simply just want to run a gas piston set up as opposed to the DI gas system. I have other ARs and all of them are DI, I keep them clean and well lube I've yet to have any issues with any of them. There are pros and cons to both systems, to say one is better than the other is ultimately the opinion of the user.

    I regularly run 500-1000 rounds between cleanings or lubrication on my DI AR with zero issues. I'll literally shoot it until the accuracy is affected, then clean and lubricate. Most of my friends do the same thing.

    People overclean their rifles like mad. A DI AR that's not used with a suppressor requires absolutely no more regular maintenance than a piston rifle.
     

    M. Sage

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    I had an Osprey piston on a Colt 6920. No issues with it. Much cleaner and cooler on the bolt/BCG/chamber than DI. Limited handguard selection though.

    DI isnt bad but piston is better for me.

    How can y'all tell if the bolt carrier is "cooler"? I've run my rifle until my barrel smelled like an iron frying pan left on a burner with nothing in it several times, and I couldn't tell you how warm my bolt carrier was.

    Nor did I care; the barrel temp was the bigger issue...

    At any rate, the handguards got warm (they'll get hotter with a piston up there, and the barrel will take longer to cool), but I noticed no heat from the upper receiver itself that would suggest that the actual guts of the rifle were somehow "too hot".
     

    breakingcontact

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    How can y'all tell if the bolt carrier is "cooler"? I've run my rifle until my barrel smelled like an iron frying pan left on a burner with nothing in it several times, and I couldn't tell you how warm my bolt carrier was.

    Nor did I care; the barrel temp was the bigger issue...

    At any rate, the handguards got warm (they'll get hotter with a piston up there, and the barrel will take longer to cool), but I noticed no heat from the upper receiver itself that would suggest that the actual guts of the rifle were somehow "too hot".

    I popped the BCG out after some rapid fire to check it out. Admittedly, I didn't dismantle all the parts and I don't recall doing this with the regular setup.

    Handguards with the piston setup did get warm right where the gas was kicking out (instead of being blown back into the chamber)

    DI isnt bad but piston is better for me. I think I suffered from AR world fatigue and bailed. I'll admit if I was wrong all along and come back with tail between my legs.
     

    M. Sage

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    I popped the BCG out after some rapid fire to check it out. Admittedly, I didn't dismantle all the parts and I don't recall doing this with the regular setup.

    So no basis for comparison with a DI rifle? And why would you worry about the bolt group getting a little warm anyway? I've never understood why people worry about that, it's not like it can get anywhere near as hot as the barrel does. But it's in the advertising propaganda, which means every tacticool piston gun fanboy has to say "it keeps the bolt group cooler!" every other sentence without knowing if, how or why that would matter or if it's even true.

    I think that's what bugs me most about the piston rifles - most people buy them because of a good (if completely false) sales pitch.
     

    Rottweiler

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    I think that's what bugs me most about the piston rifles - most people buy them because of a good (if completely false) sales pitch
    +1

    The whole piston setup always seemed like a solution to a problem that didn't exist.
     

    wakal

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    Add "heavy" and "complicated"...and "expensive"...

    "The whole piston setup always seemed like a heavy, expensive and overly complicated solution to a problem that didn't exist"

    Speaking with some minor experience in the AR platform, piston AR are indeed handy in suppressed formats...except that the handguards get annoying hot, and the short barrel full auto guns (especially Adams Arms) suffer from bolt bounce. Osprey's drop in system tends to break when run hard...after three of five were disassembled and sent back to be replaced, I quit using them. Quit using Adams Arms when both their short drop in system and their dedicated short uppers (I was running them against each other to shut down Fanboyz ;) ) suffered catastrophic bolt bounce in full auto applications no matter what balance of spring, buffer, suppressor, and allocated gas we tried. Worked just fine on semi auto, but "occasionally locked the hell down" doesn't cut it for full auto duty rifles.

    I do like LWRC, and think PWS are cool...but both are heavier than the same configuration DI and far more expensive...PWS 7" guns have occasional bolt bounce issues too. Piston systems also limit handguard choice, which is one of cool things going in the LegoGun(tm) world ;)

    So, and of course this is just the opinion of a guy who dabbles in AR from time to time, pistons are expensive, heavy, and option-limiting solutions to a problem that really doesn't exist. Like M.Sage, I run guns into the ground (unlike him, in full auto suppressed formats as well as moderately serious competition) and consider piston systems Tactiderp for the "gotta have" crowd. But I build them anyway :)


    Alex
     

    itchin

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    Yep they don't give you any advantage or change the game as the guy on red jacket said. I have an ops416 and I've never had problems. But I've never had problems with DI either. As a matter of fact if someone wanted to swap carriers and add a little cash I'll trade off my osprey and go back to DI. This upper had never had a gas tube so I never got a standard carrier. I'd also need your gas tube and roll pin.
     

    Shorts

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    I won't be running a suppressor and the barrel will be 16", no full auto either.
    I simply just want to run a gas piston set up as opposed to the DI gas system. I have other ARs and all of them are DI, I keep them clean and well lube I've yet to have any issues with any of them. There are pros and cons to both systems, to say one is better than the other is ultimately the opinion of the user.

    Have you started putting a parts list together? What have you go so far? Let us help you shop :shades:
     

    breakingcontact

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    You all enjoy your AR world. I shot the M16A2 and M4 in the Army. They were good rifles but i was never crazy about them.

    Piston guns are growing in popularity. If you think thats just due to advertising thats fine. Yes ARs and even DI have plenty of advantages as do piston guns. The automatic defense of the DI system is incredibly strange to me. (Yes we shouldnt jump on board with piston guns just because they are new either).

    As a civilian i am free to pursue better rifles than either DI or piston ARs.
     
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