Gauging effectiveness of .45 cartridge

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  • mindslant

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    Sweeping around the internet I found this article: The Associated Press: 6 cops, 59 shots, 43 wounds, 1 dead man in Tenn.

    I'll sum up the pertinent parts. Six officers took 59 shots in three volleys in three seconds with .45 cartridges.

    I'm not trying to start the old caliber argument found everywhere, but it does raise some concerns in the pistol I'm choosing for concealed carry. I'm looking at the Glock 36 for it's reliability and ease of concealment. I understand most shootouts last less than a minute, happen within 7 yards and usually consist of three shots or less. Looking at this article, maybe 6 rounds isn't enough?

    A thought occured to me, a perfectly expanded 9mm can be the size of a .50 hit but a .45 ain't gonna get smaller.

    Any advice?
    Military Camp
     

    Texas1911

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    Nothing is perfect, and honestly, 6 shots has been plenty for generations and generations of gun fights. The M1911 served in war after war and only holds 7 rounds of FMJ, but it's effectiveness is pretty widely accepted.

    What counts is shot placement, caliber, power, expansion, etc. are all secondary.

    An extremely determined attacker is going to be hard to put down without a center nervous hit, but I still wouldn't feel inadequate with a G36.
     

    robocop10mm

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    Just because he is still standing after the first "volley" does not mean the ammo was innefective. I know of several shootings where the target was standing against a wall and did not fall immediately even though there were several "fatal" shots fired.

    Dead does not necessarily mean down
    Incapacitated does not necessarily mean dead/down

    The human body can take incredible punishment or it can shut down from minimal damage.
     

    Big country

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    Just because he is still standing after the first "volley" does not mean the ammo was innefective. I know of several shootings where the target was standing against a wall and did not fall immediately even though there were several "fatal" shots fired.

    Dead does not necessarily mean down
    Incapacitated does not necessarily mean dead/down

    The human body can take incredible punishment or it can shut down from minimal damage.
    +1 to what everyone is saying but an even bigger +1 for the highlighted. Just because you have delivered a fetal shot doesn't really mean the "target" is incapable of doing anymore harm to you. There was a gentleman that was shot 8 times, at point blank range He is still smiling to day and he won't hit his wife anymore either. And the rounds were fmj's the only reason he lived I guess, had all 8 been good hp's he'd a died for sure. So a huge caliber is great but it doesn't do a damn bit of good if you miss the target. (Witch is likely what happened here, multiple misses, fallowed by a few hits) So I'd say your 45 has been doing great for a little over 100 years, it'll work if you need it.
     

    TxSgt1911

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    Shot placement is 99% of the equation. I know people who have survived hits from a .357 Mag, and I've worked scenes where one shot from a .25 did the trick.

    The most important thing to consider is what YOU shoot best with and what handgun YOU can handle, regardless of whether it's .380, 9mm, .40, .45, etc. It doesn't matter how big the bullet is and how many foot pounds of energy it carries at the muzzle if you can't hit with it. A hit with a .380 is still a hell of a lot more effective than a miss with a .500 Magnum.
     

    Big country

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    Shot placement is 99% of the equation. .........................
    The most important thing to consider is what YOU shoot best with and what handgun YOU can handle, regardless of whether it's .380, 9mm, .40, .45, etc. It doesn't matter how big the bullet is and how many foot pounds of energy it carries at the muzzle if you can't hit with it. A hit with a .380 is still a hell of a lot more effective than a miss with a .500 Magnum.
    Amen to this, Amen!
    Would that be a kick to the grapes??
    Wouldn't be!
     

    Big country

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    If you haven't seen how they tested prior to adopting the 1911 service pistol back when, this is worth the read (chapter III): [URL="http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/background.htm"][url]http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/background.htm[/URL][/URL]
    Of course, it's long before they had ballistic jelly to see what a bullet will actually do when fired at someone.
    Thank you for this link to this report. It is a very good report for this "caliber conversation".
     

    wrtanker

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    I read the orginal story quoted by the OR. The guy did get hit that many times. I don't remember the story saying what caliber weapons were being used (although it might have (old brains!)). One more thing to remember, when adrenalin and emotions (fear?) are high not everybody stops shooting just because the target is down. I have to wonder how many of those shots went into a dead body?
     

    Texas42

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    This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a round. You can be hit with a shot that will kill you very soon, and you can still stand and stagger for three seconds.

    The officers did what they were suppose to do. . . . Shoot till the threat was eliminated.

    The threat kept moving. . . for three seconds. It takes a little while for the blood pressure to drop that much. . . .even with 50+ holes in you.

    Ive read stories about how men in combat have literally had their feet blown off, and they continue to run on stumps for a few seconds.
     

    M. Sage

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    Handguns are handguns... Wounding potential is almost identical for anything .380 and more powerful. As was said before, don't worry about the caliber, worry about your ability to put the pill where you need it.

    And practice the Mozambique.
     

    claymore504

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    I do like the 45, however I do chose my 40 due to the little bit more rounds I get. The 1911 did serve well, for many decades to the military. When I was in the Army (Infantry), though, it was a saying if you had to use your side arm then something was not going right! LOL Anyways, I do own a 1911 and I love it and carry it sometimes, however, I just favor the 40 for the higher round count. I think it is a fine median between 45 and 9mm.
     

    Wolfwood

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    i agree. keep shooting till all targets are on the ground.
    even if you have to switch targets every 3-4 rounds.
    the more holes the better.
     

    mindslant

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    Thanks for all the input, I still have a few months 'til purchase time. I figure I'll stick with the Glock 36, I usually manage to keep a relatively steady hand with a .45.
    Also,
    And practice the Mozambique.
    Forgive my ignorance, what is the Mozambique? They way it sounds in my head I figure it's a Freshman initiation.
     

    Big country

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    Thanks for all the input, I still have a few months 'til purchase time. I figure I'll stick with the Glock 36, I usually manage to keep a relatively steady hand with a .45.
    Also,

    Forgive my ignorance, what is the Mozambique? They way it sounds in my head I figure it's a Freshman initiation.
    Don't feel bad I didn't know either until ZX9RCAM enlightened me.
     
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