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Police use of tasers

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  • breakingcontact

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    Tasers being used in lieu of firearms can be a good thing. However tasers being used when batons or pepper spray could be used is a bad thing.

    What is the usual SOP for officers using tasers? They seem to be used to get people to "comply" but when the person isn't a threat to officers that seems to be a misuse to me.
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    txinvestigator

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    Tasers being used in lieu of firearms can be a good thing. However tasers being used when batons or pepper spray could be used is a bad thing.

    Actually that is incorrect. TASER's are less lethal use of force, and are effective in instances where going hands on could result in injuries to officers of suspects. Dept's that use TASER's decrease injuries to officers and suspects

    When faced with a person armed with a lethal weapon other than a firearm a TASER is appropriate with specific guidelines and when there is a backup officer with deadly force at the ready.

    I don't know you or your size, but I am 5'9" and weigh 180. I promise I can keep you from putting cuffs on me with only passive resistance. You would have to up your level of force an injure me if I decided you were not cuffing me. Even with two officers just a little resistance and you would have to injure me and expose yourself and your partner to injury.

    TASER's seem cruel, but the reality is they are safer for suspects, in many situations, than going hands on.

    I wish I had had a TASER many times in my career in LE.
     

    breakingcontact

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    Appreciate the feedback. I dont doubt they make the officers job safer. I suppose my concern is a taser being used when pepper spray could be used or when a taser is used when previously verbal commands would have been used.

    Giving the officer more tools can be a good thing if it gives him more options on that spectrum of force. I am concerned that they are used when nothing should be used at all.

    As far as cops going hands on. I see where that is dangerous for both parties and for every one person getting tasered and severely injured there may have been two or three people who would have been severely injured.

    What is the next technology on the horizon that will be common for police to use for force in the future?

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    txinvestigator

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    Appreciate the feedback. I dont doubt they make the officers job safer. I suppose my concern is a taser being used when pepper spray could be used or when a taser is used when previously verbal commands would have been used.
    I would rather you TASER me than spray me, AND spray does not prevent a person from fighting. The TASER is far superior and better for the suspect than OC. OC pain lasts for a LOOONG time. I know from experience.

    I don't know what you mean by "previous verbal commands would have been used". If you can clarify that, I'll try to respond.

    Giving the officer more tools can be a good thing if it gives him more options on that spectrum of force. I am concerned that they are used when nothing should be used at all.
    ??? Are you suggesting that officers decide to arrest someone and then just TASER them, without verbal commands first or indication of resistance from the suspect? Doing so WOULD be an inappropriate use of force, just as slamming the suspect to the ground who is just standing there and offered no resistance. Are you aware of such a case?

    What is the next technology on the horizon that will be common for police to use for force in the future?

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    breakingcontact

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    Specifically there is a 17 year old in a coma with brain damage now in Bastrop County. Police tasered him and by the video and his fellow students' accounts he was backing away from the police with hands to his sides.

    Previously, police would have continued to give verbal commands to the young man or he may have been brought to the ground physically.

    If these "isolated" incidents of excessive use of force are just that, then this is just the modern version of what would have been a police beat down in the past.

    Statistically I'd like to see if the police having more tools at their disposal makes them and the public have lower rates of injury and if those injuries are more or less severe than previously.

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    txinvestigator

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    Specifically there is a 17 year old in a coma with brain damage now in Bastrop County. Police tasered him and by the video and his fellow students' accounts he was backing away from the police with hands to his sides.

    Previously, police would have continued to give verbal commands to the young man or he may have been brought to the ground physically.
    OK, what did the young man do to get the police called? what was his demeanor? Size? What caused the brain injury, exactly? link to video?

    If these "isolated" incidents of excessive use of force are just that, then this is just the modern version of what would have been a police beat down in the past.
    Interesting. You cite ONE case and call it "incidents". Who says the incident in the above case was excessive force?

    Statistically I'd like to see if the police having more tools at their disposal makes them and the public have lower rates of injury and if those injuries are more or less severe than previously.

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    Statistically, TASER use has decreased suspect and officer injuries. It is a fact. Again, I know it looks cruel, but every officer who deploys the TASER has taken the ride. Once the TASE is over, it is over.
     

    breakingcontact

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    OK, what did the young man do to get the police called? what was his demeanor? Size? What caused the brain injury, exactly? link to video?

    Interesting. You cite ONE case and call it "incidents". Who says the incident in the above case was excessive force?



    Statistically, TASER use has decreased suspect and officer injuries. It is a fact. Again, I know it looks cruel, but every officer who deploys the TASER has taken the ride. Once the TASE is over, it is over.

    You asked for a specific incident. I supplied it. Then you criticize me for supplying only one case?

    Ill try and find the link. I didn't include it originally as when its about a specific case it always devolves into people lining up on their teams.

    What I'm more curious about and what I opened this thread with, is when cops are allowed to use their tasers, where they fit into the force spectrum and if they are being used more or less.
     

    breakingcontact

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    BigBoss0311

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    Taser first, over baton and pepper spray. I would think this would be almost standard practice in most use of force continuum's. Reason being a baton is not always non-lethal. There are too many lethal striking areas on the body when two people are moving around and possibly struggling. Trying to make a non-lethal strike on a moving person is iffy at best. Pepper spray is good, but not great. Not all people go down immediately with pepper spray. It takes time to work on people. The person can still move around and fight back, even if he is blinded by the spray. Pepper spray will also affect the person using the spray in the first place. Always. It will get on you in some way either during or after the fact. A taser is an almost guaranteed knock-down weapon. It almost always works. Unless the person is on meth or some other craziness, you don't power through that 5 second ride. On a personal note, I would rather be tased than sprayed or get the shit beat out of me.
     

    breakingcontact

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    Taser first, over baton and pepper spray. I would think this would be almost standard practice in most use of force continuum's. Reason being a baton is not always non-lethal. There are too many lethal striking areas on the body when two people are moving around and possibly struggling. Trying to make a non-lethal strike on a moving person is iffy at best. Pepper spray is good, but not great. Not all people go down immediately with pepper spray. It takes time to work on people. The person can still move around and fight back, even if he is blinded by the spray. Pepper spray will also affect the person using the spray in the first place. Always. It will get on you in some way either during or after the fact. A taser is an almost guaranteed knock-down weapon. It almost always works. Unless the person is on meth or some other craziness, you don't power through that 5 second ride. On a personal note, I would rather be tased than sprayed or get the shit beat out of me.

    Thanks for the response.

    So you laid out where the taser sits in the progressive use of force. When is the use of force generally authorized?
     

    BigBoss0311

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    use of force is always authorized. The use of force continuum is clearly defined by the employer. If person A does this, I can use this step TO this step. Steps do not have to be taken in order either. You can jump from step to step depending on situation.
     
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    txinvestigator

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    You asked for a specific incident. I supplied it. Then you criticize me for supplying only one case?
    No, I criticized you because you cited ONE case and then referred to incidents, plural.

    Ill try and find the link. I didn't include it originally as when its about a specific case it always devolves into people lining up on their teams.
    Yeah, I get that. Fair enough


    What I'm more curious about and what I opened this thread with, is when cops are allowed to use their tasers, where they fit into the force spectrum and if they are being used more or less.

    Departments vary on at what point in the force contimuum TASER's can be deployed. However, none that I know of restrict it to deadly force situations.
     

    txinvestigator

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    I honestly cannot see from the video what happened. It sounds like he was part of a fight?

    I'll say this; if the TASER was used when force was not justified, the Deputy should be prosecuted. I don't know if it was or not.
     

    breakingcontact

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    No, I criticized you because you cited ONE case and then referred to incidents, plural.

    Yeah, I get that. Fair enough




    Departments vary on at what point in the force contimuum TASER's can be deployed. However, none that I know of restrict it to deadly force situations.

    Who writes police policy? Police administration, then it is ran by the city council (city/state) and city attorneys to ensure it complies with state and federal laws?

    My ONE example I mentioned is illustrative of many examples of police escalating the situation and applying force by some means when the "subject" or "citizen" is not escalating the situation. (I hate to use the words subject and citizen here but dont want to say victim)
     

    txinvestigator

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    Who writes police policy? Police administration, then it is ran by the city council (city/state) and city attorneys to ensure it complies with state and federal laws?

    My ONE example I mentioned is illustrative of many examples of police escalating the situation and applying force by some means when the "subject" or "citizen" is not escalating the situation. (I hate to use the words subject and citizen here but dont want to say victim)

    You can tell from that video what happened? I cannot. If a cop tells you to stop or move and you don't, you risk being TASERed for no compliance. Placing hands on you is force. A escort hold (pain compliance) is force. If you try to move away and the officer simply grabs you that is force.

    I could not see what happened in that video. I am not agreeing that the use of the TASER was excessive. I also do not know if it was appropriate.
     

    breakingcontact

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    You can tell from that video what happened? I cannot. If a cop tells you to stop or move and you don't, you risk being TASERed for no compliance. Placing hands on you is force. A escort hold (pain compliance) is force. If you try to move away and the officer simply grabs you that is force.

    I could not see what happened in that video. I am not agreeing that the use of the TASER was excessive. I also do not know if it was appropriate.

    Generally speaking...since we dont know the specifics; I can be tasered while walking down the street if a cop tells me to stop and i dont?
     
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