unjust denial of purchase

[west texas hvac man]

heres the story: I walk in to Field and Stream outdoors in San Angelo, Tx 2 weeks ago to purchase a sabre defence ar 15 (my first ar), go through all the paperwork and everything, and get a "delayed status".

before i go any further, i'll inform you all that i am 23 yrs old with a current/valid DL with current address, have no warrants or any kind of pending case. I do however, have one non-violent misdemeanor on my record from when i was 19 (almost 4 years ago) (that was not punishable by a court to 1 year or more state prison) <or whatever the the question on the paperwork asked about>. since the misidemeanor occurred, i've purchased 4 firearms (2 hunting rifles, a shotgun, and a handgun after i turned 21) without ever even getting a "delay". i've answered all the "criminal background" questions on paperwork the exact same way each time i've purchased a firearm.

back to the story: so i was obviously very bummed out to hear that i wouldn't be able to take the rifle home with me that day because of the delay, but was completely dumbfounded when they called me 2 days later to inform me that NICS put a denial of purchase on me.

im going through this ridiculous process of appeals right now, and have yet to hear back from anyone as of yet. i had a copy of my birth certificate, DL, SS, and even went down to the police station here to get some finger prints made to send in with my appeal paperwork.


has anyone experienced anything like this? any thoughts of what could be done to speed the process? could the fact that it was an AR-15 that i was purchasing have anything to do with it?

any insight or advice would be much appreciated

 

[MadMo44Mag]

All I can offer is get your CHL and be done with this kind of stuff.
Pick, purchase and amble right out the door.

 

[Texas1911]

It's a government process, they are all like that. All you can do is stick with it, or you can cancel the sale. Nothing is there to prohibit you from legally obtaining a used AR15, and the market should be full of them as time ticks by.

A CHL would be in your best interest.

 

[west texas hvac man]

"I do however, have one non-violent misdemeanor on my record from when i was 19 (almost 4 years ago)"

- can't obtain a CHL for about another year and a half... no misdemeanor tickets other than traffic violations for at least 5 years prior to applying for a CHL(or at least that was my understanding after briefly glancing at my brothers chl book) >>> correct me if im wrong though, that would be awesome<<<

i just don't understand how i could of possibly been flagged this time, when i've had no problem what-so-ever purchasing the 4 firearms before this attempt

 

[Texas1911]

i just don't understand how i could of possibly been flagged this time, when i've had no problem what-so-ever purchasing the 4 firearms before this attempt

Different examiner, different results.

 

[cuate]

Like somebody posted, buy a used AR and let 'em stuff that one they refused to sell to you...

 

[Texas Solo]

I been through this before with customers.
You'll go through the process, get it straight, and move on.
In my experience, it's usually something stupid...a clerical error. The dealer may have transposed some digits on your SS#, the NICS examiner heard it wrong, etc etc. I always caution customers to print clearly, so I can read it. NICS will also repeat all the info back to you, so you must be listening to verify that they have it correct. NICS tells me that most delays are caused by someone being a Jr., but that may cause a delay, not a denial. You may also find that you're a victim of idenity theft and have warrants out for you. That actually happenned to one of my customers, which turned out to be a good thing he was denied.
Once it's straight, NICS will issue a UPI#...unique personal identifer....it will be good for the next transaction only. After that, your situation should be straight.

On the CHL thing...any Class A or B misdomeanor will disqualify you for 5 years. Or...any (class A,B,or C) offense under Penal Code 42.01 (disorderly conduct)
DPS just released the new up-to-date CHL handbook as of 9/01/09 online. I can e-mail it you if you like, or you can find it online.

 

[Texas Solo]

Like somebody posted, buy a used AR and let 'em stuff that one they refused to sell to you...

Who is "them"?
The dealer did not refuse to sell it to him, NICS refused the sale.
Dealers are bound by law, and your comment is way out of line.
Besides all that, isn't it better that the OP finds out what's going on?

 

[SIG_Fiend]

The dealer did not refuse to sell it to him, NICS refused the sale.
Dealers are bound by law, and your comment is way out of line.

That's an aspect that escapes a lot of people. Dealer's hands are tied when it comes to a lot of things. May not seem like a big deal to a lot of people, but unfortunately that is the federal law. There are a great deal of things that may not seem like a big deal to people (out of date address on DL), but if a dealer knowingly allows false data on to the form, the dealer can be charged with a federal felony, if convicted could serve a jail sentence and pay fines, and lose their rights to own firearms. Not very fun, but that's the law as it is now.

Excellent advice from Texas Solo.

 

[robocop10mm]

Don't get caught up with the assumption an AR-15 had anything to do with the hang up. IIRC the dealer informs the NICS person that the firearm to be purchased is either a handgun or long gun, period. No make, model and serial number. Likely a clerical error if you have not had any problems before. Go through the process to find out the cause so it can be corrected.

 

[Texas Solo]

Don't get caught up with the assumption an AR-15 had anything to do with the hang up. IIRC the dealer informs the NICS person that the firearm to be purchased is either a handgun or long gun, period. No make, model and serial number. Likely a clerical error if you have not had any problems before. Go through the process to find out the cause so it can be corrected.

Robocop10mm is 100% correct. NICS asks "what type of firearm?"
The response is long gun or handgun.
Way too many people think that the NICS check is some type of hidden registration. I tell them that at no time is the make, model, or serial # of the firearm given out. So, how could it be a registration?

I've also contacted NICS the day AFTER a transaction for info, because an employee failed to write down the NICS examiner's ID#. They told me they couldn't help, because after 24 hours they have no record, their deleted. The background check is only good for 24 hours.

Put away the tin foil hats.

 

[Ranger60]

All the prevoius posts regarding the "system" are correct. I had one like this when I was a dealer. The individual wanted to purchase two firearms from me and got a denial. He was totally amazed!!! Turns out a misdemeaner was MISCODED as a felony in court records. Took him a while to fix it, so, just do what you have to do, it could take a while, but keep at it.

And it is correct, the dealer has NOTHING to do with this, he is bound by law. Also, the first person to be called by the dealer is just a clerk type, limited authority. A delayed then goes to an agent, so, can be multiple individuals and could be an error anywhere in the chain.

 

[Texas1911]

I've also contacted NICS the day AFTER a transaction for info, because an employee failed to write down the NICS examiner's ID#. They told me they couldn't help, because after 24 hours they have no record, their deleted. The background check is only good for 24 hours.

Put away the tin foil hats.

The ATF was caught holding onto records for longer than 24 hours and filing them away once before. They got their hands slapped for it. I don't trust them to not keep records of some nature, and ultimately they can subpoena local FFL records at a whim if they want a complete record. That includes your name, residence, description, seriel #, make, and model.

I'm not very tin foil hat, but I don't trust the government to use it's powers properly.

 

[Texas Solo]

The ATF was caught holding onto records for longer than 24 hours and filing them away once before. They got their hands slapped for it. I don't trust them to not keep records of some nature, and ultimately they can subpoena local FFL records at a whim if they want a complete record. That includes your name, residence, description, seriel #, make, and model.

I don't trust the government to use it's powers properly.

I completely agree that we'll never know what the Gov't is up too. My point was that the background check was only good for 24 hours, as you could have developed a felony between getting the OK and actually taking possession of the firearm. And, that the NICS check itself isn't a registration. Firearms can always be traced via the manufacturer>dealer>customer. But nowhere should it be legal for an agency to pull up my name and get a list of what I own...except in Maryland! That IS a registration, which in theroy, does not exist.

Here's a story of corruption for ya:

I got denied by Maryland State Police for a purchase during the mandatory 10 day waiting period. It was a clerical error involving my SS#. While on the phone with the Firearms Division getting it straight, the officer read me a list of firearms that I owned. WTF??? Md. has no state firearms registration system. And, by LAW, there is to be no kept records after the state background check is completed. When I asked how he knew this info, he said "it's right here in front of me".
There is a crime being committed in Md. at the MSP, but nobody cares.
I moved to Texas.

 

[dday]

thats scary

 

[Big country]

That is worse than a state level corruption and needs to be dealt with immediately!

 

[Starker]

I moved to Texas.

Good call!

 

[atticus]

Great thread. Illustrates several things: the difficulty administering ANY background check system, the likelihood that errors can and will occur, the need to be patient and law abiding, the frustration resulting from gremlins in the system. None of those can be changed by us, nor do they indicate a need to do away with the NICS. But the bottom line is "Don't trust the government to do the right thing." Hope that they will, but recognize that the founding fathers included the 2nd amendment just in case the well-meaning govenment becomes a not-so-well meaning government.

 

[xavierherrera]

Buy used

 

[Wolfwood]

Buy used

& w/ cash