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9/11 on Harwin Drive

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  • iratollah

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    May 25, 2008
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    This is how one retailer on Houston's Harwin Drive chose to observe 9/11:

    ImamAli.jpg


    I guess that to them, tolerance means we accept them but they don't need to accept us. For generations, immigrants to this country, including my parents, worked as quickly as they could to become as American as their neighbors. What you see above is known as Creeping Sharia.

    http://www.bridgehouston.org is trying to make a difference and help people understand how a certain group views the rest of us.
    Gun Zone Deals
     

    jasont

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    Had to look up who Imam Ali was, I initially thought this was a lot worse than it actually is. Apparently his death for the last 1,000+ years is always celebrated on the 21st day of Ramadan which just happened to fall on Sept. 11th this year. It won't fall on that date again for a long time. They definitely should have been more sensitive than using the words martyrdom and Sept. 11th in the same sentence.
     

    MadMo44Mag

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    What can one say?
    Un-American and goes to show some will not assimilate into American culture because they do not try to become American.
    American is the land of prosperity but American will never become their home land because they truly cannot understand and or accept Americans.
     

    iratollah

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    I researched this as best as I could. The month to observe the death of this Imam is Muharram. This year, the official date for mourning Imam Ali was Arbaeen which fell on February 15, 2009. I could find nothing referencing mourning this Imam during Ramadan. Nothing. It appears that one website in Austin may be doing some revisionist exploitation and they said the date was Sept 09, not 9/11. So there is no legitimate religious basis for choosing 9/11 as the day to mourn this imam.

    I'm confident I won't find a single Japanese restaurant in this country which closes on 07Dec as a day of mourning to honor the martyr pilots who gave their lives for the Emperor. The Japanese living here are good citizens and recognize the importance of respect to your host country.

    Even if 9/11 was a legit date for mourning this Imam, which all my research contradicts and says it is not, the cultural insensitivity is appalling. I see it as a backdoor way to celebrate an American tragedy. I'd be inclined to say forward away with complete confidence that you are not misinterpreting the intent of the poster of that sign.

    On my Bridge Houston website I worked hard to be sure that all of my citations were credible and referenceable. I received this pic from a journalist who got it through a series of forwards. It doesn't appear to be photochopped and I'm trying to work my way back to the source. It is important to us all to be accurate with this type of thing, I believe this is worth forwarding.
     

    idleprocess

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    Very very bad timing and an even worse choice of words. Better to just announce that the business is closed on that day without giving a reason.

    The natural assumption to those that know little about Islam (such as myself) is that Imam Ali was one of the September 11, 2001 hijackers.

    EDIT: Per Wikipedia, the death of Imam Ali (Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib) is commonly celebrated on 21 Ramadan, which per this calendar, occurs on September 11th. Seems like it's just a really bad coincidence mixed with intense stupidity or "backdoor" bad will on the part of whoever put that sign up.
     

    jasont

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    I didn't know anything about Imam Ali A.S. until I Googled him. I also assumed he was a hijacker or something but wanted to check first. First result I came up with was this guy.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali

    The month of Ramadan calendar lists his death as an event on the 21st day of Ramadan. The first day of Ramadan was August 22nd so the 21st would be Sept. 11th.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan_(calendar_month)

    I think this was a very unfortunate choice of words, hopefully not intentional. I don't think the store owners realize what a negative connotation the word martyr has to the average American. The only thing we think of when we hear martyr is terrorists.
     

    iratollah

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    Day of mourning is not the day of death but the 40th day after. I still see it as an 'in your face' move by the store owner.
     

    iratollah

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    The person who sent me the image sent me this today, which conflicts with the dates I've been able to find.

    Actually the Martyrdom of Imam Ali, the cousin and son in law of Muhammad, is a day of mourning for Imam Ali who was beaten on the 19th day of Ramadan around the year 661. He eventually died from the beating on the 21st day of Ramadan. Shia (one of the sects of Islam) Muslims believe Ali was the rightful successor to Muhammad so Ali is a very important figure to them. Most Shia Muslims take the 21st day of Ramadan to mourn his death. Because Ramadan follows the Muslim lunar calendar, starting and ending with the sighting of the new moon, it moves backwards about 10 days every year. For the year 2009, the 21st day of Ramadan just happens to land on September 11.

    While this store closing was honoring a historical figure and not directly honoring the 9/11 attackers, it was nevertheless very poor judgement.
     

    iratollah

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    Update from the store manager posted on another forum:

    This is the manager of the store in question in this thread. We were closed on last Friday for the observance of the martyrdom of Imam Ali (A.S.).

    We are closed every year on two religious holidays - Ramadan 21st (martyrdom of Imam Ali A.S.) and Moharram 10th (martyrdom of Imam Hussain A.S.). This year coincidently Ramadan 21st fell on September 11th. Muslims follow the lunar calendar and it moved forward by 10 days every year as compared to the Gregorian calendar.

    While the timing of the day was unfortunate, we still realize our grave mistake with the sign that we put up. It was worded incorrectly and we understand how it could have been misconstrued. We sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding that this has caused. We have put up an apology on our store stating all this and clarifying our position - the text of which follows here:

    September 14, 2009

    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

    This is in regards to the sign that was posted on our premises on September 11, 2009 stating that “We will be closed on Friday, September 11, 2009 to commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Ali (A.S.)”

    Imam Ali is an important personality in Islam and his martyrdom took place on Ramadan 21st in the year 661 A.D. Ramadan 21st is a religious holiday for Muslims worldwide. Coincidently, Ramadan 21st this year was on Friday, September 11.

    Our store was closed to commemorate this important event in Islamic history. We did not mean to offend anybody by our actions. We apologize immensely for any offense that this might have caused. We are proud Americans and deeply regret the events of September 11, 2001. Our prayers and condolences are always with the families of the men and women who lost their lives that day.

    We once again apologize for any misunderstandings that might have been caused.

    Sincerely,


    Manager,
    Perfume Planet.


    We spoke to local TV channels trying to clarify the situation earlier today as well - the news stories can be seen here:

    [url]http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7018149[/URL]

    [url]http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090916_jj_harwin-shop-911_090916.187edc6f2.html[/URL]


    We hope all this clears up any misconceptions and misunderstandings that were caused. If anybody has any questions, please feel free to contact me and I will be more than glad to answer them. Once again, we sincerely apologize for our actions.
     

    GeekGoddess

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    Imam Ali is a bit more than just a 'historical figure' to Shi'ite Muslims. His murder was part of the cause of the split between the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, he was the fourth Caliph and considered one of the 'rightly guided' Caliphs. He is a holy figure, a religious figure, and for Muslims to honor is death is no more 'anti-American' than a Christian person celebrating Easter.

    It took me less than 10 seconds to determine that Imam Ali was *not* one of the hijackers, as was claimed in the email chain that I received (two months after the incident). The sort of knee-jerk reaction and continual forwarding of emails without any fact checking is demonstrably a lack of critical thinking skills. I'd be the first one down there if the sign was trying to honor a hijacker.

    Strangely enough, when I forwarded the correct information about Imam Ali back to the many people on the email chain, most of them didn't really care. It was more important to jump to conclusions without doing any research.

    Sigh


     

    eriadoc

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    A.) Don't believe every e-mail you get forwarded. In fact, don't believe any e-mail you're forwarded. You may as well open random attachments.

    B.) Snopes. Hell, Google. Or even the good old fashioned encyclopedia (does anyone besides me still use public libraries?).

    C.) Once you get past A and B, think freedom of religion. If this guy that died in 661 AD is important to the religion, they should go pray to him or something. What the hell do I care? If someone jumps to an incorrect conclusion (need a pic of the "Jump to Conclusion" mat, lol), that doesn't mean this guy has done anything wrong. It just means someone stupid saw his sign.

    Related to Part C - sometimes being American means you have to rejoice in freedom, even when it means people are free to do things you hate. Many of the posters here are veterans and/or active duty - they've served to ensure that people can burn flags, worship some Islam dude from the 7th century, and frankly, to worship a suicide bomber if they want. Sometimes it sucks, but once you start usurping those basic liberties, you may as well live in any other country on the planet. Too many people seem willing to kill the very things that set us apart from the rest of the world.
     

    GeekGoddess

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    I agree. I'm from a long line of servicemen, and my son is in the Navy.

    Ignorance and mindless prejudice makes me angry. I'm writing this up for a skeptic blog I contribute to.
     

    iratollah

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    I agree. I'm from a long line of servicemen, and my son is in the Navy.

    Ignorance and mindless prejudice makes me angry. I'm writing this up for a skeptic blog I contribute to.
    Even the store owner who posted the sign admitted that he used extraordinarily poor judgement in posting that sign. The store owner said he completely understands how Americans would misinterpret. Why didn't he simply post, "Closed for religious holiday"? Save your self-righteous indignation for something more deserving.

    Please be sure to share with us the link to the skeptics blog, your insights may be redemptive for some of us.

    I regularly lecture about ignorance and mindless prejudice and have positive feedback from close to two thousand people who have participated in my lectures. You obviously joined this forum specifically to respond to this particular thread. Why is there something in your comments that leave me skeptical?
     

    iratollah

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    Ignorance and mindless prejudice makes me angry. I'm writing this up for a skeptic blog I contribute to.
    Like I said, Geek Goddess registered here for the sole purpose of complaining about this thread and won't be back here again.

    Skeptic? Her motives will make skeptics of us all.
     

    GeekGoddess

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    I've been lurking for a bit but never had a reason to register. When I received this email, a couple weeks ago, I recalled there had been a good follow- up discussion here. The store owner was a bit short-sighted, and I remembered the links to the news stories being posted.

    My "motive" was to obtain the links. Someone sent me an email about this incident two months after it happened, never bothering to check that it had been adequately covered in the news, snopes.com, or in blogs and forums. My article was about how people will automatically forward emails or repeat information without checking it out for themselves ( as was done here and on the locals new), whether it be about a sign in a store, or all those urban legends that fill our spam box. Often, when people forward *any* "warning" emails, they do so without thinking about it first, or because it confirms something they want to believe. Hence the remarks.
     

    kafirman

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    Thinking about freedom of religion

    C.) Once you get past A and B, think freedom of religion. If this guy that died in 661 AD is important to the religion, they should go pray to him or something. What the hell do I care?

    One should care because the American credo is built upon the idea of equality under God. The Declaration declares this to be a "self evident" truth.

    Islam however reject this. Islam rejects the Golden rule.

    Koran 9:29 indicates that it is the duty for Muslims to make the kafir (non-Muslims) "feel oppressed." To this end, the kafir are to be taxed. Historically the Jizya has been around 50%.

    Further Koran 4:3 reveals that Muslim males are allowed to have female non-Muslim sex slaves ("right hand possess[ions]"). The non-Muslim sex slaves serve to relieve the Muslim male of sexual tension so that they will be less likely to fornicate with Muslim girls ("Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice." "Injustice" in this context = "fornication with Muslim girls.")

    Just because someone SAYS they are practicing a RELIGION does not mean that their practice is properly and legally understood to be a religion. It could be more appropriately classified as ORGANIZED CRIME.

    Does a religion or ORGANIZED CRIME sanction rape?
    Does a religion or ORGANIZED CRIME make it their express objective to oppress the outsiders and tax them at an onerous rate?
    Does a religion or ORGANIZED CRIME claim it is appropriate to kill those who leave its fold?

    It is time to question the PC sloganeering: "It is ALL good." It is not all good my friend.

    It is past time to defend our physical borders. It is long time past to defend our ideological border: namely the self evident truth that all men are created equal. We should politically challenge the Islamic notion of Islamic supremacy and the slavery of kafir.

    To the extent that political voices and dialogue do not broach this subject, it leaves us with our only remaining tool: the lever of force (bullets and bombs).

    Those on the left and right should be able to agree that substituting bullets for words is probably not wise.

    The words that can save western civilization are: "self evident" and "all men are created equal."
     
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