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  • Brains

    One of the idiots
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    Apr 9, 2013
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    I was thinking that same thing.
    And the part of 48 hrs when they were in the bar...
    Im your worst nightmare a negro with a badge...
    I love that movie, definitely one that would never see the light of day in today's world.

    I did some research years back on Cleavon Little, wondering why I'd never seen him in more roles - especially starring with Gene Wilder and in a Mel Brooks film. That's the kind of gig where you expect to see people return. I was saddened to find out he had died young from cancer.
    ARJ Defense ad
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
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    As for Texas Government Code 411.205, that sounds more like while in a car. Makes no sense to have to produce a drivers license while standing in line.

    It is an interesting area for case law.

    Under Prouse, SCOTUS said cops cannot detain to check for a license, yet a Game Warden can detain for a license check. And voting does not even require ID. So there is no universal rule. My guess is SCOTUS would side with it is OK to check to detain for a LTC check. Life is not fair.


    Is there a law stating I have to have a drivers license to be licensed to carry a gun?

    Yes there is. You learn this in LTC class. It is kinda moot now.
     

    easy rider

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    The funny thing is, it takes more in the identifying process to get an LTC than a DL, also an LTC has more information on it then a DL. They are both forms of ID. Seems a bit redundant to ask for both to check identity to carry.
     

    General Zod

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    I'll bet you is a skinny dude. My uniform gun had the right grip beat to dodo from 3 o:clock carry. It managed to strike just about everything I passed, and got caught up in the seat belt. 5 is much better to conceal.

    Well, I'm not a skinny dude (not since my 20s...) and 5 o'clock carry makes my pants drag down off my butt. So does 4 o'clock... So like TXI, I carry at 3 o'clock. It works well for me.
     

    45tex

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    Well, I'm not a skinny dude (not since my 20s...) and 5 o'clock carry makes my pants drag down off my butt. So does 4 o'clock... So like TXI, I carry at 3 o'clock. It works well for me.
    Worry not, nobody from the Concealed Division is going to inspect you.
     

    deemus

    my mama says I'm special
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    No, this didn't happen to me but I realized long ago that a lot of cops don't know the finer points of concealed carry law. I was arrested in a bar parking lot for carrying in a 51% area. EXCEPT the parking lot is NOT the damn PREMISES! But due to the cops ignorance of that fact, I spent a night in the Travis County "justice center!"

    Expect bad things, bad things happen. Expect good things, good things happen.
     

    txinvestigator

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    First of all as I said, I wouldn't not state that I do have a license and I would produce it if need be, but at that point it is harassment if it's just to see if I have one with no PC.
    Sorry I missed this earlier this month..

    Observing you with a handgun is PC to ask for the License to Carry. It is not harassment.



    As for Texas Government Code 411.205, that sounds more like while in a car. Makes no sense to have to produce a drivers license while standing in line. Is there a law stating I have to have a drivers license to be licensed to carry a gun? Not that I don't have a drivers license, just seems silly under the circumstances.

    You have to have either a DL or a Texas DPS issued ID card to obtain a Texas LTC. Under the GC you have to present either the DL or ID, AND the LTC if a Peace Officer demands you ID yourself. There is no penalty if you fail to do so.

    However, under penal code 46.02, if you are carrying a handgun elsewhere besides a motor vehicle or watercraft, or your own premises or premises under your control, then you can be arrest for a violation if you cannot present your LTC.
     

    Sock Puppet

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    Under the GC you have to present either the DL or ID, AND the LTC if a Peace Officer demands you ID yourself. There is no penalty if you fail to do so.

    Ok, M2 posted that under 411.205, "If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license." Got it! If I'm carrying, I have to present an ID and LTC when a PO askes. No problem.

    But, are you saying that under 46.02 I always have to present both an ID and LTC? For example, I'm currently sitting somewhere I cannot carry. So, if a PO asked me to ID myself I have to present my LTC in addition to my DL? Perhaps I'm misreading something? I don't see logic to present my LTC if I'm not carrying.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Ok, M2 posted that under 411.205, "If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license." Got it! If I'm carrying, I have to present an ID and LTC when a PO askes. No problem.

    But, are you saying that under 46.02 I always have to present both an ID and LTC? For example, I'm currently sitting somewhere I cannot carry. So, if a PO asked me to ID myself I have to present my LTC in addition to my DL? Perhaps I'm misreading something? I don't see logic to present my LTC if I'm not carrying.

    No. here is what I am saying;

    To carry a handgun other than the exceptions of PC 46.02 you have to carry your LTC. If a Peace officer asks for your LTC, you must present it. Otherwise he can arrest you for a violation of 46.02

    Under the GC, if a peace officer demands that you ID yourself AND you are carrying your handgun, then you must display both your LTC and either your DL or ID. Under this law, there is no penalty for failing to do so, nor can you be arrested.

    If you are stopped for a traffic offense, or stopped for some other reason that a LE demands that you ID yourself, you must show the officer your DL or ID AND your LTC IF you are carrying.

    If the officer discovers your handgun before asking for your ID, then he can demand your LTC to verify that you meet the non-applicability in Penal Code 46.15

    Hope this helps
     

    Sock Puppet

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    No. here is what I am saying;

    To carry a handgun other than the exceptions of PC 46.02 you have to carry your LTC. If a Peace officer asks for your LTC, you must present it. Otherwise he can arrest you for a violation of 46.02

    Under the GC, if a peace officer demands that you ID yourself AND you are carrying your handgun, then you must display both your LTC and either your DL or ID. Under this law, there is no penalty for failing to do so, nor can you be arrested.

    If you are stopped for a traffic offense, or stopped for some other reason that a LE demands that you ID yourself, you must show the officer your DL or ID AND your LTC IF you are carrying.

    If the officer discovers your handgun before asking for your ID, then he can demand your LTC to verify that you meet the non-applicability in Penal Code 46.15

    Hope this helps
    That does help. Thank you!


    Too often I've heard someone state that an ID and LTC were required, but they fail to mention that it only applies when carrying a firearm.

    Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk
     

    easy rider

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    No. here is what I am saying;

    To carry a handgun other than the exceptions of PC 46.02 you have to carry your LTC. If a Peace officer asks for your LTC, you must present it. Otherwise he can arrest you for a violation of 46.02

    Under the GC, if a peace officer demands that you ID yourself AND you are carrying your handgun, then you must display both your LTC and either your DL or ID. Under this law, there is no penalty for failing to do so, nor can you be arrested.

    If you are stopped for a traffic offense, or stopped for some other reason that a LE demands that you ID yourself, you must show the officer your DL or ID AND your LTC IF you are carrying.

    If the officer discovers your handgun before asking for your ID, then he can demand your LTC to verify that you meet the non-applicability in Penal Code 46.15

    Hope this helps
     

    easy rider

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    Not trying to doubt you, but are you saying an LTC is not identification in itself? I mean the LTC does also have the DL number on it and the same picture.

    I carry both in my wallet, so it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Not trying to doubt you, but are you saying an LTC is not identification in itself? I mean the LTC does also have the DL number on it and the same picture.

    I carry both in my wallet, so it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering.
    I am just telling you what the law says.

    I believe DPS has said that the LTC is a form of ID. However, that does not change the display requirements in the GC and PC.
     

    majormadmax

    Úlfhéðnar
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    9   0   0
    Aug 27, 2009
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    Not trying to doubt you, but are you saying an LTC is not identification in itself? I mean the LTC does also have the DL number on it and the same picture.

    I carry both in my wallet, so it doesn't really matter, I'm just wondering.

    A Texas LTC/CHL is state-issued identification, and I have used mine as identification to vote in the past (I wasn't carrying as that would be in violation of the Penal Code, I just thought it would be fun to do so).

    I have also used it at the airport going through TSA, and to purchase alcohol (although I rarely get carded at my age).

    I have never had an issue using a LTC/CHL as ID.

    But all that said, there are requirements to carry both when carrying a firearm, as TXI has detailed in his post.

    Like you, I find it smart to carry both at all times.
     

    easy rider

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    I am just telling you what the law says.

    I believe DPS has said that the LTC is a form of ID. However, that does not change the display requirements in the GC and PC.
    I understand that, it just seems redundant and silly.
    To get my Texas drivers license all I had to show was my Oregon license and proof of residency.
    To get my LTC I had to undergo a lot more scrutiny, ID, fingerprinting & background check.
    To drive my only ID required is a DL. Yet to carry a handgun I need an LTC and ID.
    Not arguing the point, just a bit perplexed as to why.
     

    DubiousDan

    Trump 2024
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    May 22, 2010
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    I understand that, it just seems redundant and silly.
    To get my Texas drivers license all I had to show was my Oregon license and proof of residency.
    To get my LTC I had to undergo a lot more scrutiny, ID, fingerprinting & background check.
    To drive my only ID required is a DL. Yet to carry a handgun I need an LTC and ID.
    Not arguing the point, just a bit perplexed as to why.
    The number on the LTC can be either a TDL or ID number and it does not specify which. If you're pulled over your LTC is not proof that you have a TDL or if you do have one it does not prove that the TDL is current. So, I guess the LTC would be a suitable ID for everything except driving.
     
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