12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores--

A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.


Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.





Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..





Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF







On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.


So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.







Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..





Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..







Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed

Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.





The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.


Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.


We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.







Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job.. Ed

We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,







Here is folder shotgun guys set up as 24ga FH.







Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.







Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..







Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc,
with a variety of bullets..Ed

Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.





Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases





Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt
further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.





Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed

please help what is this thing.

It looks like an underlever side by side shotgun with exposed hammers for centerfire cartridges.I will guess that it is a black powder gun.I am not familiar with those proof stamps.DON'T SHOOT IT!I hope this helps.

Looks like an 8bore or a 4bore..Ed

There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.


Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.







Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

What's the heaviest bullet available (I don't want to take up bullet casting to do something custom) that works in the 585HE?

Heaviest for practical high speed use is 900gr.

But there is more energy to be had and less recoil with

650 and 750 gr, as we are able get them out much faster. ED

.
Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver


wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.


Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.











Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.


It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,


by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a


Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported


the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.











That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The


2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,


from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.


He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..


Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.











Here is picture of a case a Trex owner made using our 585 brass, by putting


a piece of 11/16 tubing ,cut a piece 2/10 of an inch long with a tube cutter chamfered


the cut side a bit and tapped it on the case down to the belt with the brass pipe


and fireformed it in the T Rex chamber.......Made a perfect fitting case.


Cut our brass to 3" to fit shorter trex specs. He was out of brass


and couldn't find more, so he invented his own. And our rim was big


enough so his extractor still worked ok....His original Trex case base is .685"


and our rim and belt on first case run, is .655" diameter, and base ahead


of the belt on unfired cases .631" and the brass sleave pushed up tight to the


belt just takes up that little difference. Ed.

We have heard that fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is working


with Bertram in making a run of the full length 12ga From Hell cases.


Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.


Any wanting to get some, and get in on the run, contact Bertram


at the email ----- b.bertram1@bigpond.com ......










Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......


.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.


Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,


Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms


muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make


these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..




Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,


a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.


The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).











Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.


The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed

Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan


Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.







Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering


for our case as it came from production line,.







I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.


We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.


Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted


a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and


handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,









Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat


375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed

Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.




Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,







We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The other couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the other one...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. King of 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,


Here's how we size and seat 375 HE, a simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.


I do primer work separate, not in the press.That way I can clean pocket, check
flash hole,....... SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.


When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight. About .35" down.


So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,


Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,


After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.


These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.


OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.


All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed

Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got inAfrica with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top thatare set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behindfrom our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 onanother bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere, We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting withlighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700, Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders neededto get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints areat reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HEthey built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 fromultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load.. Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet. Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600. Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die, test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs. When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guysSoon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out forour bigger case .Ed

wow!!!

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.







Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases,
2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..





Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.


416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.





Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..









Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..


Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..



Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.



Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..




Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed