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M1911 Handguns Transfer to CMP

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  • busykngt

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    Well.... we'll see if the Senate will allow it to go forward as part of the Defense appropriations bill. And then the big test to see if the Trump Administration tries to throw up any road blocks in it's way (or other such lawsuits from third parties). I, personally, wouldn't expect any of them to be successful in stopping it but then again, all they really have to accomplish is to delay it until the Democrats get back into the WH (and that will stop it).
    Concerning the 1911s, as far as I know, the CMP hasn't announced any pricing as yet. However, preliminary indications are, they won't be inexpensive. For those willing to spend, in order to buy a bit of history, I'm sure the pricing will be found acceptable. Not sure the same can be said for those looking to buy a base gun for a build (meaning there maybe better base guns for less money to be had on the civilian market). I note the linked article mentions as many as 100K units might be available. A few years ago when this topic first got serious, there was some speculation there might be three or four times that many in storage. But I've seen no "official" final quantities announced. Undoubtedly the CMP knows the answer but like the pricing, they're keeping that information close to the chest (at least for the time being). I expect the CMP will be handling the whole process in a very professional manner once it gets underway.
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    wakal

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    Predictions from inside the CMP indicate they will do the same thing with 1911/1911A1 they did with the Garands and ammunition...mark things 80-90% of retail and then use the money to fund multimillion dollar target systems that don't work and highly expensive indoor air rifle ranges for rich kids to play on.

    And of course the "collector grade" stuff will go straight to auction.

    Having just come back from CMP/Anniston, where the "shop" is now a wide hallway between the entrance and the break room for the air rifle "range"...they really don't seem to care about selling guns anymore.
     

    diesel1959

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    I'd be very ecstatic if they'd just eliminate the auctions where the muckity-mucks pay stupid money for items that should just be in the normal mix. CMP can inspect, classify, repair, and then sell these pistols in several classes, priced as they choose. I just detest those damn CMP auctions. And there should be NO corporate buyers--only individuals. If they need to put a transfer restriction upon the firearms (say a ten-year restriction except within the immediate family), I'd be fine with that.
     

    busykngt

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    The "nature" and 'business model' of the CMP has changed over time (and some could argue, not for the better).

    It's corporate charter has undergone such revision, I'm kinda surprised there haven't been commercial challenges (i.e., monopoly lawsuit-type challenges) filed by other retailers or wholesalers who aren't given equal access to the government supply of such firearms.
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    diesel1959

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    The "nature" and 'business model' of the CMP has changed over time (and some could argue, not for the better).

    It's corporate charter has undergone such revision, I'm kinda surprised there haven't been commercial challenges (i.e., monopoly lawsuit-type challenges) filed by other retailers or wholesalers who aren't given equal access to the government supply of such firearms.
    --
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    There are "corporations" and then there are federally-chartered "corporations". The CMP is the latter. Their sole purpose being to fulfill the function of facilitation of Civilian Marksmanship--by moving weapons out of the Arsenal of Democracy and by hosting and sponsoring marksmanship competitions and clinics and classes, etc.--all in accordance with the dictates of their enabling legislation. They are not, nor would they ever be in competition with a private corporation.
     

    Moonpie

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    Remember we're talking about the GOParty of Stupid.
    Snatching defeat fom the jaws of victory for decades now.
    Hopefully they will not screw things up.

    Maybe this will also mean more modern M-9's can also be sold.

    I'm hearing $1000 for basic guns.
     
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    Dawico

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    Remember we're talking about the GOParty of Stupid.
    Snacking defeat fom the jaws of victory for decades now.
    Hopefully they will not screw things up.

    Maybe this will also mean more modern M-9's can also be sold.

    I'm hearing $1000 for basic guns.
    Is defeat tasty enough to snack on?
     

    busykngt

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    Yeah, they're a congressionally chartered tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) Corporation. But non of that would preclude a wholesale firearms business like Davidson's from bringing an anti-trust monopoly-based lawsuit against them.

    Moonpie, I agree, while it's all speculation at this point... that's the figure I've heard bantered around. I suspect they'll grade them (like the M1s), with some degree of variability but if that's the starting price (for anything that's shootable), it seems a little rich to me. Especially given what $1K can buy you on the current civilian commercial market.
    If the true objective is to rid the government of "storage costs" - as was first proposed - theoretically, reducing the storage costs of M9s shouldn't be far behind.
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    diesel1959

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    Due to the CMPs unique situation (federally-chartered non-profit corp.), I'm pretty certain that they would have to do something specifically beyond their charter--something barred to them--for them to be liable for any accusations of monopolistic behavior.

    The mere fact that they are the sole outfit to whom the government transfers decommissioned firearms does NOT constitute something barred to them, as that is in fact, their raison d'être. In such event, folks like Davidson's (or others) would have to just suck it up.
     

    Jigo23

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    I just hope they put a limit on how many a person can buy so more people have an opportunity to get one at whatever the actual price is. Otherwise people will go in and buy 100 then auctioned on GunBroker for ridiculous amounts. Like what was just happening with those crappy Colt 1911 USMC rejects. I had zero desire to have one but there probably were guys that wanted one but couldn't afford at the inflated prices. I guess I still don't understand why if those were actual U.S. Govt. property that were "decommissioned", why weren't those dispersed through CMP?
     

    busykngt

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    Because CMP can only handle long guns (not handguns) as part of their charter at present. They're working on getting that changed plus they will be getting an FFL to handle the 1911s, the way they plan on handling them. And they've already let it be known, it will take a fairly lengthy amount of time to be ready to sell the 1911s due to the grading process and the armorer training program they plan to put their folks through.

    I'm sure they will put an annual limit on how many 1911s (and perhaps, even what grades) one can buy in a given year. They've had seven round 1911 GI magazines to sell for the last couple of years and they placed a ten unit limit on those each year.
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    Jigo23

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    Oh ok, cool...well better to delay I guess and have their shtuff together and donit right. At 55, just hope I'm alive long enough to at least see them lol. Kinda have a feeling we might be underwhelmed tho or have expectations too high. I'd be happy if some are at least as descent as some of the M1's were
     

    busykngt

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    A lot of what you see or hear is just speculation at this point because CMP is pretty "tight-lipped" with the amount of 'official' information they put out on the subject. I've seen a lot of comments from guys saying all of 'em will be worn out and beat to hell. I suspect you'll find a fairly broad spectrum of conditions, from many that have been used extensively to a fair quantity that will be in great condition. Some of this is based on what I personally saw in the mid-1970s when I was XO (& property officer) of a rather large personnel battery. The property room was kept under lock & key and had a large number of 1911s which were in great shape. Since this wasn't a firing battery, those pistols were almost never used (even for qualification). Now granted, all these have been in storage for many years but as you pointed out with the M1s, if they've been packed away correctly, most shouldn't be any the worse for wear than the day they were taken out of service. I do recall an early article written on this topic which seemed to have the blessings from the CMP at the time, and one of the things the article said, was to not expect to see a bunch of WWII vintage era 1911s in the offering... most were of more recent time. I'm not sure I really understood why that comment would be true but it'll be what it'll be...
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    satx78247

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    To All,

    IF the 1911 handguns are as bad as we MPs had before we received the M9 & M11 handguns, you won't want one.
    (I sent all 32 of our PMO's old 1911 handguns in for "depot maintenance" & ALL of the 1911A1 were "scrapped" as unrepairable. - Until we received the new SAs, I issued Korean War era Colt's & S&W revolvers to the MPs/DoD police, as "an interim measure".)

    yours, satx
     

    Moonpie

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    I'd bet these old 1911's will grade between OMFG rare to useless junk. No one knows what will turn up.
    CMP will cherry pick and auction the rare quality pieces.
    A rack grade beater for $1K? Naaaa.
    I can buy a brand new Colt WW1 re-issue for near that.
     

    busykngt

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    I'd bet these old 1911's will grade between OMFG rare to useless junk. No one knows what will turn up.
    CMP will cherry pick and auction the rare quality pieces.
    A rack grade beater for $1K? Naaaa.
    I can buy a brand new Colt WW1 re-issue for near that.

    Not sure how many "rare" pieces will turn up but my guess is, Moonpie's comment pretty much "hits the nail on the head"! (Just my two cents worth of speculation)

    I'd guess they'll be plenty of "good shooters" available or at least made that way by the CMP armorers once they get through cannibalizing (lord knows, they'll have the parts available). But the question remains, how much is one willing to pay? If the beaters start at a grand and to get a decent shooter, it's gona cost ya half again as much.... too rich for my blood! The current civilian market can turn up many better selections for $1500.

    But it's hard to know what the "history buffs" out there, are willing to pay. I'm sure a lot of folks will see a perceived "collector's value" to them, so CMP most likely won't have a hard time selling out.
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    justinbowser

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    I might up $500 for a decent one but not much more. I bought a very nice Service Grade M1 Garand from CMP a few years ago and I think it was a bargain for around $600
     
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