Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
What was his death ruled? Did they rule it a suicide?
Car chase ends badly
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What was his death ruled? Did they rule it a suicide?
You just don't want to let go of it. Can I prove it suicide? No, no more then you can prove it wasn't. Does it matter? not really, I see it my way you see it yours, I'm just speaking from my experience with PCP. Unless they actually leave a note saying they want the cops to kill them, I doubt any death like that is ruled a suicide. Even if he told someone that he would rather die then be taken by the cops, that in itself is basis for suicide rather than be taken. So who knows? The dead don't talk.
Suicide or not, the result is the same. You make your call.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
Hey, all I did is give my opinion and back it up with some facts. You're the one who wanted to debate it with me. I gave you a debate, so don't get mad about me giving you what you wanted.
I'm not mad, never was. Experience is not fact? All I'm saying is from my experience with PCP is that I don't think I could have driven around the block let alone as far as he did if I was that high, and no matter how messed up I was I still knew what an outcome would be shooting at cops.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
That's your experience. Drugs can effect different people differently, and many of the side effects of PCP can cause an individual to become violent, and can cause them to think they're invincible. That is a proven fact. That's all I'm saying.
Drugs and alcohol don't turn you into a monster, they pretty much bring out what is inside you. It brings out things you keep in check when you aren't high or drunk. It doesn't make you think bullets can't harm you. I was never a drug addict, but I have taken most everything that was available in those times. I am a sober alcoholic and will be the rest of my life. I don't speak of what I read or see on TV about either, I speak of what I know from experience.
Do I know for a fact it was suicide, NO. I just don't believe PCP made him think bullets wouldn't kill him.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
A misconception of invulnerability is listed as a side effect of PCP. You can argue against that all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a possible side effect.
http://drugabuse.com/library/the-effects-of-pcp-use/
http://www.acadianaaddiction.com/addiction/pcp/symptoms-signs-effects
https://www.drugs.com/illicit/pcp.html
http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/pcp-effects.html
And yes, certain drugs can turn you into a monster. Especially when those drugs cause side effects such as severe hostility/anger, paranoia, delusions, ect. There is absolutely no reason why someone should expect someone high on hard drugs to be even remotely rational. There are countless dashcam videos, police reports, and deaths that prove just how rational drug addicts can be. Your personal experiences are just that. YOUR experiences. They really have no bearing on this conversation because the PCP addict in the video obviously did not react the same way you did.
http://drugabuse.com/library/the-effects-of-pcp-use/
http://www.acadianaaddiction.com/addiction/pcp/symptoms-signs-effects
https://www.drugs.com/illicit/pcp.html
http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/pcp-effects.html
And yes, certain drugs can turn you into a monster. Especially when those drugs cause side effects such as severe hostility/anger, paranoia, delusions, ect. There is absolutely no reason why someone should expect someone high on hard drugs to be even remotely rational. There are countless dashcam videos, police reports, and deaths that prove just how rational drug addicts can be. Your personal experiences are just that. YOUR experiences. They really have no bearing on this conversation because the PCP addict in the video obviously did not react the same way you did.
Exactly how did you diagnose him an addict? How long have you been an expert on drugs? How many addicts do you know? When did I say he was rational? Are people that are suicidal rational? I never said drugs don't have side effects, of course they have effects.
I won't say I'm an expert, but I have done drug and alcohol counselling, so I have known plenty of addicts and alcoholics.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
Maybe it was the police chase, or possibly the shootout. It may have also had something to do with the lab results showing he had PCP in his system. You don't just wake up one morning and decide to do all that shit.
I never said I was an expert, but ALL of the information pertaining to drugs that I posted is from ACTUAL experts. People who study drugs and their effects for a living. I tend to believe what they have to say.
One. I want nothing to do with him, haven't seen him in years, and he's probably back in prison. What does that matter? Do I have to shoot up or have druggie friends to understand the effects of drugs?
You never outright said it, but you implied it whether you realized you did or not.
Not thinking that bullets can't kill you. Knowing what will happen if you shoot at cops. Being fully aware of what he's doing. That sounds pretty damn rational to me. So which is it? Do you take back all these quotes (because only a rational person could have these thoughts) and admit he was completely irrational, or do you stand by what you said earlier and admit that you argued that drugs don't make you irrational? You can't have it both ways.
Other than you, who said he was suicidal? There is FAR more evidence pointing towards him doing what he did because of the drugs than because he wanted to die.
No, you just tried to downplay those effects by saying they didn't effect you that way. Every reliable source that has information about the side effects of illegal drugs says the same thing. PCP can cause you to think you're invincible, it can cause you to become violent, and it can make you completely irrational. Those are scientific facts and they cannot be disputed without some serious evidence to the contrary.
I'll leave it there for now. Goodnight.
Exactly!
Hey, you DO realize, don't you, that when there's a situation of "suicide by cop", the cause of death is NOT listed as "suicide"? When fuckers get into a police shootout and die in a hail of gunfire, it is a justifiable homicide (assuming the police's use of deadly force is determined to have been justified). That's right--it's a homicide and not a suicide. The term "suicide by cop" is merely an informal description coined by cops so that they can more easily deal with the psychological load of having to take a life in the line of duty.
This Atlantic City case is the instance where the guy might not have been otherwise suicidal but decided that he was NOT going to go to jail and would rather shoot it out with the cops. That's still suicide by cop--informally. Formally, it's still a justifiable homicide, as evidenced by the grand jury's failure to indict anyone and the officers having followed their respective departments' policies & procedures.
Maverick44
Youngest old man on TGT.
By that logic, every police shooting is suicide by cop. Bank robber gets in a shootout because he doesn't want to go to jail? Suicide by cop. Fleeing felon shoots at police after chase? Suicide by cop. Person makes police think he has a gun so they'll shoot him? Actual suicide by cop.
The dude was drugged out of his mind, and probably thought he was in the matrix where he can dodge bullets and win in a gun fight against 7 officers. Nothing I have seen suggests this was an actual suicide by cop act.
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Straight outta wiki overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
"There are two broad categories of 'suicide by cop'. The first is when someone has committed a crime and is being pursued by the police and decides that they would rather die than be arrested. These people may not otherwise be suicidal but may simply decide that life is not worth living if they are incarcerated and thus will provoke police to kill them. The second version involves people who are already contemplating suicide and who decide that provoking law enforcement into killing them is the best way to act on their desires. These individuals may commit a crime with the specific intention of provoking a law enforcement response."
I know, I know--it's wikipedia, but it's more "proof" than what you've offered. Or something.
You say you want to be a police officer. Great. I'm an actual police officer (albeit on disability), and I'm telling you that based upon my experience and understanding, the Atlantic City case was a suicide by cop. Cops involved in such instances can take comfort in knowing that they did what they had to do. They were backed into that corner. And no matter how hardcore you may believe a cop to be, taking a human life is something that wears on a good person. Folks need to be able to file things away into little corners of their minds and "suicide by cop" is just one of those ways. Just my dos centavos . . .
I'm not on a mission to turn anyone from the dark side. I had an opinion from my observation and what I know from my experience and others. I didn't say he wasn't on drugs. My opinion was that the way he was able to drive, meaning he wasn't so high that he couldn't drive that well, and that he got out of his car and went straight at the police in the manner he did suggested he was suicidal.
Your opinion of how drugs effect a person differ from mine. I didn't come to my conclusions on reading about it or watching videos, TV or movies. I know how it effects me personally and learned from others on how it effected them. I no case did I find that it actually made them think they were superman. They may say something to that affect, but talking to them one on one, they didn't really believe it.
He may have been an addict, and if you research it, there is a very high rate of suicides among addicts, very much higher than those that are not.
The Matrix? Well you believe want you want.
Your opinion of how drugs effect a person differ from mine. I didn't come to my conclusions on reading about it or watching videos, TV or movies. I know how it effects me personally and learned from others on how it effected them. I no case did I find that it actually made them think they were superman. They may say something to that affect, but talking to them one on one, they didn't really believe it.
He may have been an addict, and if you research it, there is a very high rate of suicides among addicts, very much higher than those that are not.
The Matrix? Well you believe want you want.
I saw this elsewhere and the discussion was on shot placement. The lesson learned here was that shots to the chest sometimes don't even slow down a PCP freak but one to the hip and he will drop like a piano hit him in the head.
So now we know why Dawico is the way he is?
Well, he did "drop" like that when he went down...
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