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Texas Constitutional Carry - Thoughts?

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  • crewe

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    Nobody required you to know anything in Texas(where we are talking about) They just let you go out and buy and own and didn't even send a black helicopter to circle your house. Now you are an expert, without any evidence of a problem at all, you have figured out a solution. That training paid off.

    Condescension and sarcasm don't encourage discussion.
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    easy rider

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    I realize I'm late to this one but it seemed entertaining for a bit.
    As far as the bill, I'm against it if I have to pick a side.
    I just think that if a person is going to be allowed to own a firearm, they should at least know which end is up.
    Im more afraid of getting killed by some clown in an accident than I am getting dusted by a criminal. I'm not suggesting either are likely, but it's just where my fear lies based on my observations.
    Constitutional carry isn't about owning a gun. Anyone, as long as they aren't legally banned, can own a gun and never shoot one in Texas today. Certainly I believe if you own and carry a gun you have a responsibility to know how and when to use it. But even before there were licenses or permits to carry, people carried guns. Did all of them know how to use them? Probably not. All I can say is that there are states that have constitutional carry and people aren't going around shooting others any more then before. I don't hear of more deaths caused by stupid people because of constitutional carry.
     

    Wildcat Diva

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    Yes, even now, I am sure that plenty of people get their LTC and still barely know which end goes where for the test, and then go on to lose any introductory knowledge quickly when they never train again. LTC class/test on its own doesn't prove much of anything going forward.

    And, then by admitting that likely truth, if we start going with the argument that more training than LTC class is needed (in order to be allowed by the government) to carry responsibly... well, it will never be enough.
     
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    Nightwatch

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    Constitutional carry isn't about owning a gun. Anyone, as long as they aren't legally banned, can own a gun and never shoot one in Texas today. Certainly I believe if you own and carry a gun you have a responsibility to know how and when to use it. But even before there were licenses or permits to carry, people carried guns. Did all of them know how to use them? Probably not. All I can say is that there are states that have constitutional carry and people aren't going around shooting others any more then before. I don't hear of more deaths caused by stupid people because of constitutional carry.
    Agree with easy rider...punish the wrongdoers, not the masses. Make the penalties for using guns wrongly so stiff that fewer carry because they don't want the extra 10 or so years.

    In the 50s and 60s, we had a lot of crime-but not many carried guns...they valued human life more and didn't want the extra charge. Now, they don't care about either.

    I see drivers every day who don't belong on the road...but try taking everyone off the road and having them go through more training than the law requires...it just doesn't work. I've seen idiots come into CHL classes...and leave still idiots.
     

    TexasRedneck

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    And the above, folks, is EXACTLY the problem. We don't need anti-gunners to keep OC down - OUR OWN "SIDE" does it. Sorry - as noted, too many other states allow CC already - there's no blood running in the streets, or shootouts on Saturday night at the burger joint over a parking spot.

    But the "I'm trained, and therefore better" mindset is what pisses me the **** off!
     

    seeker_two

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    That place east of Waco....
    Yes, even now, I am sure that plenty of people get their LTC and still barely know which end goes where for the test, and then go on to lose any introductory knowledge quickly when they never train again. LTC class/test on its own doesn't prove much of anything going forward.

    And, then by admitting that likely truth, if we start going with the argument that more training than LTC class is needed (in order to be allowed by the government) to carry responsibly... well, it will never be enough.

    True.....will we start restricting First Amendment rights for people who never took college-level English or attended seminary?
     

    Wildcat Diva

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    I'll be honest. I kind of thought the opposite before I really thought it through.

    I think the concern about it comes from a knee jerk reaction that happens because we have been sucking on government tit as a culture for far too long.

    A lot of what we are counting on is false. I still have not convinced my husband that CC is needed. He likes his thought that having a LTC means that people who carry have been vetted (the background check... and not so much the LTC class) and everyone can be comfortable knowing that he and other people who are "allowed" to carry have been vetted; so the assumption is that we are clearly separate and kosher to be armed out in the free... and everyone can chillax.

    I'll admit that that way of looking at it does give me a second of pause. I'd like to think that an officer or a citizen who discovers that I carry should know that I'm good to go. But, really who knows for sure? Honestly, who has really called me on it and actually seen my LTC? It could be a masquerade and I could be a bad guy hiding in plain sight. It really don't mean that much.

    But I DO get how this faulty reasoning suggesting that 'LTC does mean a lot' exists.
     
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    pronstar

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    Such a slippery slope...the creation of laws to "protect" societal lowest-common-denominators results in California.

    If only we could legislate common sense...which ain't all that common as we all know.
     

    easy rider

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    Such a slippery slope...the creation of laws to "protect" societal lowest-common-denominators results in California.

    If only we could legislate common sense...which ain't all that common as we all know.
    For politicians, common sense takes a backseat to things like: "What's in it for me?" and "Will this help me get reelected?"
     

    crewe

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    Constitutional carry isn't about owning a gun. Anyone, as long as they aren't legally banned, can own a gun and never shoot one in Texas today. Certainly I believe if you own and carry a gun you have a responsibility to know how and when to use it. But even before there were licenses or permits to carry, people carried guns. Did all of them know how to use them? Probably not. All I can say is that there are states that have constitutional carry and people aren't going around shooting others any more then before. I don't hear of more deaths caused by stupid people because of constitutional carry.

    Fair enough, I agree with this
     

    Jigo23

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    This happen to anyone else and make them pause a second and wonder if it's such a good thing?....
    Ok, at my CHL class, two people showed up who have never owned a gun and didn't even HAVE a gun to use for the class. Their thinking was that somebody would let them borrow one. Hmmmm
    Going through the course curriculum and one of the same guys who didn't have a gun constantly raised his hand to ask if he could shoot a person in this scenario and that scenario, probably 4-5 questions in that manner. When the instructor would basically tell him no that wouldn't be a legal use of a firearm, the guy would interrupt with a "yeah but what if...?" Basically arguing with the instructor. Ok range qualification time...the 2 without guns began asking everyone if they could borrow their gun. Mr Itchy Trigger Finger asks me and I tell him NO, he gets an attitude like I'm a dickhead for not letting him use my gun. The gun range guy lets them both borrow an M&P or XD or similar. We gather outside to go over the course of fire, safety rules etc etc. The 2 brainiacs with the borrowed guns which they had no idea how to operate are at the back of the group cycling the actions and holding the guns up looking at them like a Neanderthal that was just handed a zippo lighter. This going on WHILE instructor was going over safety rules mind you. So I move back behind them and the rest of the group hoping I'm out of the line of fire. We are assigned lanes, lucky me is smack dab in between these two. As we are loading and making ready to fire, I'm like a bobble head looking left and right as they fumble with getting the mag into the gun, waving it in all directions when they finally get a round chambered. We get the command to fire and I just backed up a few feet off the line and watch. One guy fires missing the whole target and the gun jams. Other guy proceeds to blaze through a mag, even after slide lock he's pulling the trigger, then quizzically proceeds to turn the gun in all directions to see what's wrong with it. I looked around and the range safety officer was just standing off to the side chatting up some chick. I was DONE! Found the instructor and told him I would either wait til the range was clear then shoot or come back for the next class and do the range portion only. The two bozos apparently "passed" the shooting portion and would soon be loosed upon the world with a loaded firearm...as soon as they bought one I reckon. That class made me second guess what we are doing. Making it even EASIER for idiots to carry around a loaded firearm??? Surely there has to be some sane middle ground here. How about make it totally free to get a license to carry, but make people pay $50 for a 2-day course...HALF a day in the classroom and a day and a half on the range with qualified instructors. Would that be so awful and too much of an infringement on our right to be an idiot with a loaded gun in public?
     

    Wildcat Diva

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    And who is going to teach a 2 day course for $50? I wouldn't think that would be worth it to an instructor.
     

    jrbfishn

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    At any range I go to, and any instructors I know personally, those 2 would have been tossed. No license. The range officer would have tossed them as well.

    Look at it like this. People like that already have access to many weapons that are not licensed that are just as dangerous. One can and does, cause as many deaths and maimings yearly as guns. I know people that have had or caused multiple accidents with people injured or worse and they are still driving. Because cars are an acceptable hazard. At least if they cause any injuries with a gun, through stupidity, they will probably go to jail. Less likely to happen with a car.
    But aside from that, even stupid people have a right to the tools to protect themselves.

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    easy rider

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    Just my opinion, I think your instructor wasn't doing his job. I believe my instructor had said something to the affect that if he felt any of us wasn't ready, that he may have them return after a period of time. I don't remember the exact words, the amount of time or if it would cost more, but I do remember something like that.
     

    jrbfishn

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    Not my class but the same instructor about a year ago. Had guy preparing his sidearm while in the car, killed his dash. First shot right throuh the heart. Class over for him and I believe he had to call a tow.

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    Nightwatch

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    Most laws are aimed at those who obey laws. The feel-gooders point to them as "accomplishments." In real life, those who are idiots may even pretend to go along with safety rules and nod yes at the appropriate times to get their license...but they're of the same mind once they leave. Society has swung to controlling all of us instead of dealing with(punishment) those who cause the problem...more of the "tolerant" mindset.
    Leave us alone and deal with the ones who do wrong.(There aren't that many.)
     

    TexasRedneck

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    Jigo23 - did you report the instructor to DPS? They will send an undercover if they think there's issues. Frankly, i can't remember EVER seeing even the most lax instructor do something like that. What area did this happen in? And when they were being unsafe, why didn't YOU call a cease-fire?

    <yeah, I'm smelling something>
     

    Jigo23

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    Jigo23 - did you report the instructor to DPS? They will send an undercover if they think there's issues. Frankly, i can't remember EVER seeing even the most lax instructor do something like that. What area did this happen in? And when they were being unsafe, why didn't YOU call a cease-fire?

    <yeah, I'm smelling something>
    Well padnuh, you can smell whatever you want...there it is, do with it what you will. Don't know why I'd think maybe there just might be one of these forums, especially a Texas one that wasn't overrun with know it all jack-donkeys in it...think I'll stop counting at one, not worth my time.
     

    crewe

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    There was a lady in my class who never fired a gun before and had to borrow one for the range test. She was passed. But she at least had an interest in learning about how to own and operate a firearm
     
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