Car chase ends badly

jeepinbanditrider · Jul 27, 2017

Apparently Aliengear put out a statement criticizing the shooting specifically the part at the end where they shot him 20 or more times after he was down and out.

I see if I can dig up what they wrote.

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jeepinbanditrider · Jul 27, 2017

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearin...ear-bashes-police-shooting-armed-suspect/amp/

I can see what they're getting at. If one of us lowly civies put a couple of full mags into someone we'd be having a fun day in court.

But that dude made his decision and got to ride the lead bullet train. I don't really care how many times they shot him.

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easy rider · Jul 27, 2017

I am debating, not arguing, but I'm done and to put it in your terms, you made my argument for me.

ZX9RCAM · Jul 27, 2017

I didn't go back and check, but was it his gun hand that was the last "part" of him to hit the ground, or am I mistaken?
He was laying on his back, but his left hand was still up off the ground till the very end, no?

diesel1959 · Jul 27, 2017

ZX9RCAM said:
I didn't go back and check, but was it his gun hand that was the last "part" of him to hit the ground, or am I mistaken?
He was laying on his back, but his left hand was still up off the ground till the very end, no?

I saw the weapon in his right hand, and even once down, his hands kept moving--even as more rounds were pumped into him. The officers on scene were able to reasonably conclude that he was still a threat to them (or others) while those hands were still moving, and I'm pretty certain that the presentation before the grand jury included testimony to that effect. What might otherwise seem like an excessive number of gunshots was actually several gunshots from a fairly large number of officers on scene and participating in the final takedown.

easy rider · Jul 27, 2017

diesel1959 said:
I saw the weapon in his right hand, and even once down, his hands kept moving--even as more rounds were pumped into him. The officers on scene were able to reasonably conclude that he was still a threat to them (or others) while those hands were still moving, and I'm pretty certain that the presentation before the grand jury included testimony to that effect. What might otherwise seem like an excessive number of gunshots was actually several gunshots from a fairly large number of officers on scene and participating in the final takedown.

Same here, that's what it looked to me.

karlac · Jul 27, 2017

easy rider said:
Same here, that's what it looked to me.

Stop the threat, and don't stop until the threat is stopped?
Can't rationally second guess the philosophy if you're not involved ...
But how damned lucky there was no collateral damage.
That was some stupid shit on both sides ... IMO

ZX9RCAM · Jul 27, 2017

I'm sure you're right about the gun hand. I know his left was still up, so I also agree he could still have been/was considered a threat. Amazing that he was able to keep it up.
Also I don't recall seeing any blood anywhere, that seemed pretty surprising to me, there certainly were enough holes in him.

karlac · Jul 27, 2017

ZX9RCAM said:
....
Also I don't recall seeing any blood anywhere, that seemed pretty surprising to me, there certainly were enough holes in him.

Especially since it appears there were many ricochet's/bank shots off the concrete...

Mikewood · Jul 27, 2017

karlac said:
Especially since it appears there were many ricochet's/bank shots off the concrete...

Cut the cops some slack. They are from New Jersey. They are lucky they got any hits at all.

Maverick44 · Jul 27, 2017

jeepinbanditrider said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearin...ear-bashes-police-shooting-armed-suspect/amp/

I can see what they're getting at. If one of us lowly civies put a couple of full mags into someone we'd be having a fun day in court.

But that dude made his decision and got to ride the lead bullet train. I don't really care how many times they shot him.

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Whatever point they were trying to make, they picked a poor choice of words to do it with. It sounded way too much like criticism where it wasn't warranted.

Dawico · Jul 27, 2017

karlac said:
Especially since it appears there were many ricochet's/bank shots off the concrete...

That is what caught my attention.

benenglish · Jul 27, 2017

In an obvious effort to create more more strife in this thread (Now, where did I misplace that sarcasm font?), I'm surprised no one has commented on the number of shooters out of uniform. It's rather jarring to see guys dressed like my neighbor mowing his lawn or all in black with a balaclava shooting someone as a group and, apparently, thinking that that little piece of jewelry hanging on a chain around their neck is, in that circumstance, meaningful.

Is it OK for non-uniformed officers in (let us assume for the sake of argument) unmarked cars to join in a chase?

Note that this is not a comment on the merits of this particular shooting. There were plenty of marked cars, uniformed policemen, and justifications to shoot in this case. In general, though, the notion of an unmarked unit "rolling up" on a situation strikes me as a potential source of confusion more than anything else.

diesel1959 · Jul 27, 2017

In some jurisdictions, when a pursuit is called, it becomes an "all-skate" event of epic proportions. Stake-out units, dedicated impact units, narc units, marked units, marked units from other jurisdictions, etc. all get involved.

I noticed that the video we saw was from a particular marked unit--I am presuming it was the initial unit that made the restaurant scene and called the pursuit. That's also one of the reasons why other units gave way and let them resume lead on at least two (and possibly three) occasions where they'd fallen back.

I think that sort of heavy "all-skate" response is VERY typical in the NY/NJ/PA area, from what I've gleaned over the years. They are also heavy into riding two-man units due to the strength of their union contracts. In contrast, here in Texas, the majority of departments ride one-man and most departments put a pretty solid limit upon how many units can continue with a pursuit once one is called. It's a regional thing IMHO.

pronstar · Jul 28, 2017

Somewhat oddly, this old video was front and center in social media yesterday.

Details here:
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/latest...ds-bashing-police-blocking-blue-lives-matter/

http://www.outdoorhub.com/alien-gear-holsters-apologizes-unintentionally-criticizing-police

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ZX9RCAM · Jul 28, 2017

It might be an old video, but I thought it was just released to the public, which in a sense makes it a new video
Of course I've been wrong many times before, lol.

benenglish · Jul 28, 2017

ZX9RCAM said:
Of course I've been wrong many times before, lol.

Not this time.

diesel1959 · Jul 28, 2017

The more I watch that video, the more I am convinced that the man had a pistol in his right hand and a cigarette in his left. It appears the cigarette was yet in his left hand all the way to the end, but the pistol dropped from his right hand at some point--probably when the shots to his head happened as he was on the ground.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

majormadmax · Jul 28, 2017

diesel1959 said:
Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Well, he did get smoked! :pounce:

popper · Jul 28, 2017

But my son is a god boy, he's never do something like that.

Car chase ends badly

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