Antibiotics.
- Thread starter grasshopperglock
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Sure, veterinarian antibiotics could be used in a pinch.
However, buying antibiotics without training is like someone buying a keyring of 20 keys online and then expecting to be able to open 99& of the locks you encounter.
Shuutr hit most of the big points.
and that is pretty much what this thread is about.
Yup.
As far as apocalypse fantasies go, inappropriate antibiotic use is probably the smallest problem.
LOL
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Steve_In_29
Semper Fi
It's interesting that some seem to think that during a major shtf type scenario that help will be as close as a phone call away. That doctors will be making house calls as civilization collapses.
People who are truly interested in prepping should venture over to www.survivalistboards.com where you will find some very good knowledge from people who take this stuff seriously.
People who are truly interested in prepping should venture over to www.survivalistboards.com where you will find some very good knowledge from people who take this stuff seriously.
Do you guys recommend keeping a Sanford Guide in your IFAK?
Steve_In_29
Semper Fi
No...What they (Nurses/EMTs/Corpsmen/Medics/Doctors) recommend is common sense towards things and planning ahead. There is some pretty good field/trauma/etc medical knowledge and training available in the "be prepared" community.
To die or lose a limb because you were too worried about not having a doctor's script for those antibiotics is pretty stupid.
Am I correct that "pharmaco" denotes a connection to a pharmacy or drug sales position. If so it's not surprising that you tout the company line of...you're all going to die because a doctor didn't approve the treatment".
Not taking anything away from TGT but this survival section (like pretty much every one I have seen on various forums) is VERY basic and lacking....for people who want to learn more and get in depth responses head over to my previous link for a much better information source.
I didn't say to not use drugs because you don't have a prescription. I was pointing out that many antibiotics are targeted and using the wrong one for an infection could make your condition worse. If you don't know what you are doing, it could be dangerous.
And I agree that the other board would have better info.
And they probably agree that if you want to be prepared, you should study now to be ready when needed.
If I were inclined I would gather the guidelines for the most likely infections (pneumonia, cellulitis, UTI, c diff, etc) and get a treatment option or two for each. Most antibiotics have a shelf life of no more than a couple years so you'd have to replenish with some frequency. To me, that sounds expensive for the low likelihood of an incident.
Another strategy would be to have a list of target drugs and plan to acquire when the likelihood increases.
And I agree that the other board would have better info.
And they probably agree that if you want to be prepared, you should study now to be ready when needed.
If I were inclined I would gather the guidelines for the most likely infections (pneumonia, cellulitis, UTI, c diff, etc) and get a treatment option or two for each. Most antibiotics have a shelf life of no more than a couple years so you'd have to replenish with some frequency. To me, that sounds expensive for the low likelihood of an incident.
Another strategy would be to have a list of target drugs and plan to acquire when the likelihood increases.
Steve_In_29
Semper Fi
That specific comment about towing the company line was directed at "pharmaco" but your comment of
The post was also aimed in general to all the people saying it was a bad idea if you weren't licensed. As if there would be other options in the event of a societal collapse or other protracted event.
The pet stuff is relatively inexpensive and I believe some of the dried versions store very well in a freezer long term. That being said many of the things that a prepared person keeps on hand have a shelf life and need to be replaced over time so it's nothing new.
There is not always time to see that *things are imminent* in a disaster/shtf event. So waiting is a poor choice and exactly the type of thing prepared people try not to do. Not the kind of suggestion likely to garner support on a prepping forum.
and then worrying about medical training implied you thought a doctor had to be involved for safety.
The post was also aimed in general to all the people saying it was a bad idea if you weren't licensed. As if there would be other options in the event of a societal collapse or other protracted event.
The pet stuff is relatively inexpensive and I believe some of the dried versions store very well in a freezer long term. That being said many of the things that a prepared person keeps on hand have a shelf life and need to be replaced over time so it's nothing new.
There is not always time to see that *things are imminent* in a disaster/shtf event. So waiting is a poor choice and exactly the type of thing prepared people try not to do. Not the kind of suggestion likely to garner support on a prepping forum.
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I am curious t hough, because I have hypothyroidism... Exactly how long is levothyroxine good for? I was tip top shape until about 6 years ago when I couldn't walk without getting a muscle cramp.. Came to find out my thyroid had stopped working. If I dont take 88 mcg a day in a month I'm bedridden and a month after that serious problems.
"Tramadol is a synthetic narcotic with mood changing side effects. I'd avoid it. In a scenario where pain killers would be needed... Dried poppy pods."
Do dried poppy pods actually work? I thought that all of the strains of poppy seeds sold in the U.S. were selected/altered to yield little or no opiate content.
Do dried poppy pods actually work? I thought that all of the strains of poppy seeds sold in the U.S. were selected/altered to yield little or no opiate content.
Fair points.
The bajeezus was a bit hyperbolic, but people grabbing random antibiotics and treating with limited understanding is not a good plan for treatment success. A novice *could* do more harm than good.
I would not restrict treatment to doctors in the apocalypse but I have a decent idea of what I probably need.
I would trust an experienced nurse, veterinarian, pharmacist or corpsman to make informed treatments. I would even let an unlicensed professional that studied up enough to make the call.
I understand the disaster situation isn't predictable but if I had to plan, instead of maintaining the variety inventory of the ailments likely to kill you (costly due to the short shelf life of meds) would be more wasteful than a plan to acquire a supply when needed. When I say costly, I'm talking $20/ a Zpack good for 2 years. If you keep 5 on hand, that's $100. Do that again with cipro, augmentin, etc where a course can run you $100 each it can become cost prohibitive. And freezing may extend that interval but you won't find people testing that supply to be sure. But then again I'm not a prepper so someone has a better plan than me. It would probably involve talking to an ED doc and get them to run through a "say you are stuck on an island and could only have 5 antibiotics, what would you want" scenario and get those. I'm willing to bet those aren't at the pet store, but I could be wrong.
Now I don't know vet medicine as well as other pharmacists, but I know antibiograms and the evolution of resistance. And I know the drug industry pretty well. The newer antibiotics that come out (and there aren't many) usually fill a need created by resistance. Newer antibiotics have less resistance than the classics (in general). We can't use penicillin like we did 30 years ago. Amoxillin has some use but augmentin was developed to kill bacteria resistant to amoxicillin.
The benefit to old drugs is that they are cheap and sometimes they still work. It's also what you find in pet stores because pets don't intermingle like people so the resistance may be less and nobody wants to spend a lot of money treating pets. So drug companies don't spend near as much money or time developing and marketing antibiotics to treat pets.
Instead of a pet store, perhaps traveling to a country that doesn't require a prescription may be a better strategy but that has its own problems. I remember an article when I was in school and an investigation of pharmacies in Mexico and some Central American pharmacies had an alarming number of fraudulent copies of drugs that did not have the correct amount of drug in the tablets if they had any at all. So buyer beware.
Levothyroxine shelf life varies but I remember is being shorter dated than most. By that I mean when I did shelf checks every month, the levothyroxine was usually good for less than a year. Someone would get on a strength, say 75mcg so we'd get some in. Then they would change to 88mcg. So the 75 sat there until we got someone else on 75 or it expired. A new bottle would arrive with 11-15 months before expiration so it didn't take long before we were sending off old stock to be destroyed.
It wasn't uncommon for us to put stuff in a bottle that would expire in six months for some of the less common doses. If that happens we had to make sure the expiration made it onto the bottle.
1.) I'm a Doctor of Pharmacy.
Pharm.D.
2.) Nope, that's not even remotely close to what I said.
I'm not sure how you even came away with that message.
On top of that I don't have a "company line." I have exactly one person above me at work, and no one else.
Everyone with an NC Star scope on their bargain bin DPMS AR 15 thinks they're a DEVGRU OPERATOR just because they can buy a rifle and accessories.
This trend of "preppers" buying antibiotics is no different.
Having the supplies is nearly worthless without the training and knowledge.
In fact, the majority of family practice M.D.s would be just as useless in a "survival" situation.
OK. Moving on.
I'm assuming you don't know what a Sanford Guide is.
I wasn't being sarcastic.
Next time you're in Barnes and Noble pick one up and look in it.
Having a map and not being 100% sure how to read it is better than not having a map at all.
Let's say after a SHTFBBQEOTWAKIWTFLOL situation, a Houstonite is out in the water.
Let's say he steps on a lobster or crab, or a stingray just misses him and leaves a minor cut on his foot/leg.
Doesn't even need stitches. He irrigates it well, and slathers on Neosporin.
Let's say he develops diarrhea and vomiting the next day .
"Hey, I read on my Prepper forum that Azithromycin treats diarrhea! I'll take a Z pak"
Everyone knows Azithromycin treats diarrhea. That's common sense.
3 days later his legs start hurting really bad, and he develops some large watery blisters.
What now? Which antibiotic do you consider to be common sense at this point?
By this point, a goofball taking fish antibiotics will have wasted precious days taking useless antibiotics.
How does this guy save his own life?
All antibiotics are not equal.
There are great resources online for learning about ABX treatment.
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